What is the best recourse to take after your Mom has been financially wiped out by your siblings in another state?

daughterdeb
Really? They would only look at you? Wow! I'm one State over and when her lawyer advised her not to give money away he said it was for the children's sake because of her age and IF she did need care it could seriously hurt THEM financially if they spent it all and then had to cough it up in the future. She still has a nice little cash nest egg ( which I know for a fact that at least one has already tried to get half of). I see so much of my story in yours and so many others. She has her old living room & bedroom furniture ( they took the car and like your story, ran it into ground then tried to get us to BUY it from them to get it out of their yard?? In other words pay THEM for doing the junk removal FOR them...all about the $$) and her clothes. The rest of her 4 BR home & contents went with whoever could grab whatever of value. I did take 3 things,(4 if you count Mom :-) 2 of my father's sweaters and 1 of his favorite shirts that I hold around me when I need his hug ( and I buried his dog with 1 when she past too). I am so sorry for all you are going through but glad you posted your story. Everyone who posts on this site makes me feel so much less alone! I know my Dad is watching and when I see him again I know I'll see pride in his face! They will only see disappointment!

Geo123.. This is my obligation...
an act or course of action to which a person is morally or legally bound; a duty or commitment.
This is my mother, she gave me life, a wonderful life growing up. The least I can do is see that her golden years are "shining". YES IT IS ABOUT HER! And I am helping with her expenses and keeping record of it too!

I want to thank the positive posters. Your answers are doable... if I can get mother to agree to get a lawyer. I do not have POA of her. I do have Legal guardianship of a disabled sister. (she's precious!) I just am for seeing possible
options for care I can not do for mother. Medicare and Mother's supplemental insurance WILL pay for mothers home care 35 hrs a week AS LONG AS the doctor signs that she needs it. He told me just let him know when it is too much!
Which is why I checked out the rules/regulations and process of moving mother into a nursing home. She doesn't want to go. Nor does she want anything to do with my brothers now after she had to legally break them having a POA over her. Of course she doesn't want one now!!! Mother's insurance company is sending me a ROI so mother can give permission for me to sign to make decisions on her health care. This will give me the right to sign her into a nursing home for 30 days when she can't decide or is unable to decide for herself. ROI does NOT make me responsible for her medical bills.

deb, you are her savior and she is to confused to realize it. I hope that you at least get conservatorship and can hold onto her til you hit the five year mark. If she is the widow of a wartime vet, you can get VA Aid & Attendance to help pay for assisted living. Great effort on your part, hugs to you.

These family situations always make me think of a canoe trip I took about 30 years ago. It was dusk and as we were trying to just get back to the livery there was a swarm of these awful bugs that seemed to be flying at us from every angle. They got into our eyes, teeth, hair, smacked us in the face. There was nothing to do but clench our teeth, narrow our eyes, and pull our shirts up over our chins and get through it. The bugs sucked but they weren't going to stop and we had no choice but to move forward. Try to ignore them as much as possible and get through it to the end. It was pretty miserable for a while. Some relatives are so awful, selfish, dishonest, and grabby. They will say and do anything and that part you just have to grit your teeth, try to resolve to ignore them and do what you have to do. As one person put it, you are looking out for your mother. These 'insects' you are related to are never going to do that or care what they do to you. Your feelings do not count at all. They are, after all, insects! I would definitely talk to a lawyer and tune them out and then make the best of whatever has to be done, realizing you have no choice but to handle this yourself. Hang tough.

TKUP, they know perfectly well what they've done is wrong and they are kidding you and trying to kid themselves maybe, trying to just brazen it out so to speak. That's a complete self-serving bull___ answer to you about paying for care benefits YOU so its not their problem.

Were your Brothers POA for Mom's finances? This will make a big difference when it comes to Medicaid eligibility. If someone was POA and took the money, not using it for her care. Then they are criminally liable.
If Mom was pressured into giving the money to them, or gifted it to them of her own free will then a couple things can happen. Apply for Medicaid. Serve out the penalty period and the family can pick up the tab for her care, ( those who benefited from her money) or pay back the money to provide care for the next year. If your Mom is declared Incapacitated and her POA for finances is activated the person who is the POA can apply for a "Hardship" exemption for her so that she can get services she is needing. If she is granted the Hardship exemption then the brothers can be procecuted.
This is a complicated issue but If they benefited from her money, they will have to pay for her care until the look back or penalty period is up.

If you need to hear this from someone else, then I'll say it so that it can bump around in your brain during those moments when you have doubt:

It is not your job to take care of your mom any more than it is your brothers' job. You chose to stay and help your mom rather than being vindictive and leaving her to her own devices. Likewise, it's their choice not to help her out/visit/etc... You are doing whatever you're doing to benefit her so whatever legal arrangements are made should be with her money not yours. You seem to be taking the high ground. Keep reminding yourself of this.

Put this a different way:
You all need to stop thinking about this as help for YOU. This is help for HER. You've given up too much of your time to her and you need someone else to help HER. It's about HER. Whatever time you've given to this point is out of your generosity. You have given away your time to her and you need to stop doing that. Give her some of your time and get HER help for the rest of it. Just remember that it's for HER. It was her money to spend on her care and it was kind of stealing that your brothers took it and want to hide it from Medicare. Or, maybe it's called "fraud" but I'm not a legal expert.

You need to remember that they are the people that want to defraud the system for their benefit. Don't remember it in a negative way, just remind yourself that it's not you that's trying to cheat anyone and I hope that makes you realize that you shouldn't use yours and your husband's money and that you shouldn't feel guilty about that for one single second!

I feel for you, and am in a similar situation with "family. Family no more to me since i took my father home with me, away from my sister and her con artist husband who bled him dry. Not to mention left him sick,, starving, and in terrible pain from a fall. I took care of my dad the best i could living in another town, driving as much as needed. Never took gas money or got any benefits from all the money that hewas shelling out to them while he was running his own business. They drove his car into the ground and i finally asked for it back after he got sick and the business went to pot in january. After working on his finances, and helping move the things out of the business. I discovered my BIL had taken me off as a signer on the business account and added himself and also received a debit card. My dad knew he was on the account but said he was only allowed because he was helping him run the computer some, checking bank statements online. Hes 82 and really didnt understand anything about computers and my BIL insisted he could make him more efficient. Yea
He helped alright. Helped himself to my dads money hundreds at a time. My dad had no idea and is devastated to have trusted him. But what do you do when he went to the bank with him and gave him access. My sister has no clue and doesnt believe me or take any responsbility for them using him, and so far dad doesnt want her to know how much money he gave her husband,, and how much he thefted. I only have one year of bank statements so far and with the cash he got andhhis purchases were looking at probably 60,000. But he was there at the office for over 3 years. So its alot more i know, after taking care of my dad as i always do and movng him here, helping recnsile negative accounts and paying for medications ect... watching him cry and be at hia lowest point ever. she and her snake of a husband had the gawl to want to come get him from my care s they could move n with him and squat the house. Asking me for copies of electric bills, water. Dad saw right through that, but he hasnt called em on any of it. Still acting like all is well my sister because he loves her. I love her too but no more will i stand by and watch them bleed him dry and leave him for dead. They are sorrry in my opinion and i think my last words were f you!

Well I have no siblings and I am my mom's sole caretaker right now so I guess although its hard being the only one at least I am not fighting with anyone either. Get a POA, ignore your brother's BS and when/if he calls just remain calm and keep repeating to him I am doing whats best for "our" mother and as a good son I am sure you'll want to assist with any living expenses so I'll send you an itemized bill each month. Of course you may never hear from him again.

Jannie Thank you I needed this loophole.

tkup66 Yes Medicaid Ohio will go back ONLY 5-7 years THEIR CHOICE BUT in my case they will only be looking at me when she IS eligible. Glad I have kept good records for four years.

Geo123 It isn't about me. And I would laugh to the highest heavens if their wages were attached. And I haven't nor will I waste my time "arguing" over the past with people of their mentality. I changed my phone number 3 months ago after they said they would sue me for my house. I asked For what? What have I done? They said because I changed mothers life insurance policy. ( I didn't know she had one!) I hung up. Apparently by the date of the change of beneficiaries MOTHER CHANGED IT TO ME after they dumped her in a motel.

Now does anyone know how I could that life insurance policy converted in to a long term health care policy for mother???

Thank you everyone

Thank you both. And the tit for tat is exactly what they'd say it was. They wouldn't think it was because Mom needs and wants them to visit / help, they would say I'm just being spiteful. I've posted this before but I have been told IF I need help then my husband should pay for it because it's MY problem and would benefit me not them so they shouldn't lose out because I'm not superwoman or because I'd like a little bit if my own life.

They didn't care about you nor her so you shouldn't worry about attaching their wages. I don't mean to try to get into a tit-for-tat situation with them, just that you need to worry about you and her and if that means that their wages are attached, then that's just how it is.

Stop trying to understand them and just move forward with the task at-hand. Some things in life can't be explained.

I also have parasitic brother & sister. I say let Medicaid go after them for the clawback! It's your mother's money & she needs it for her care.

My mother's lawyer told her that if they go back the 5 years and see the money was just or given to sibs then they could MAKE them pay it back if Mom needs care. They might even attach wages. She gave most of her money away too. I now need help and its only been 4 years. They don't bother to even visit and they are close enough to be here to help every week if they wanted! My dilemma is do I say the heck with them and let their wages be attached ( they already don't care if I'm overwhelmed and get mad when I bring up them not helping after receiving all that money) or do I try and hang in til the look back periods is up? I don't understand how children of a wonderful parent can take, take and then treat them like dirt when they really need help! It truly baffles me that these so called family could treat her and me so cold. Best of luck with whatever you choose to do!

I suggest with Medicaid to look at what is called Millers Trust. Millers Trust will be the only way my mom will be able to be in a nursing home. One must be in a skilled nursing facility however and not an assisted living situation. Another name for it is Qualified Income Trust. my mom makes about 300.oo more the allowed for her to be on medicaid by law, but, she will be able to be on on medicaid to this loophole, or Millers Trust. No one EVER told me about this before. An elder care attorney should be able to help guide you. There is a lot of information on the web about this law. every state is different but the Miller Trust or QIT (Qualified Income Trust) is in every state. for starters I am sending you a link to a you tube video regarding QIT. this one happens to be in the state of Gerogia ..this is just an example, and this is explained by an Attorney, website: search.yahoo/search?p=you+tube+millers+trust+medicaid&ei=UTF-8&fr=moz35

"just let them have it" may not be an option if Mom needs Medicaid...her desire to just let it go may be poor judgement and unrealistic. If you have POA you can initiate appropriate investigation and proceedings; whether mom wants to press charges or not might not even be a consideration if she is deemed incapacitated. You did well to collect some of the evidence. An eldercare attorney or estate planner could advise.

Medicare covers skilled care but for a limited time only, you may make use of it as well if you mom needs to be hospitalized. Medicaid on the other hand, covers custodial care, but she has to meet the poverty criteria. So as soon as you spent the excess 3k in her account, and she is left with $2k (check with your state's rule on the poverty criteria as it may differ depending on which state you are located) she may be eligible for medicaid. Just remember that 3k should be spend on her care.

This is what I found out about Medicare and Medicaid. It may help someone else ... sorry it is so long.

Medicare Part A covers institutional care in hospitals and skilled nursing facilities, as well as certain care given by home health agencies and care provided in hospices.

Any person who has reached age 65 and who is entitled to Social Security benefits is eligible for Medicare Part A without charge. That is, there are no premiums for this part of the Medicare program.

Medicare Part A covers up to 100 days of "skilled nursing" care per spell of illness. However, the conditions for obtaining Medicare coverage of a nursing home stay are quite stringent. Here are the main requirements:
•The Medicare recipient must enter the nursing home no more than 30 days after a hospital stay (meaning admission as an inpatient; "observation status" does not count) that itself lasted for at least three days (not counting the day of discharge).
•The care provided in the nursing home must be for the same condition that caused the hospitalization (or a condition medically related to it).
•The patient must receive a "skilled" level of care in the nursing facility that cannot be provided at home or on an outpatient basis. In order to be considered "skilled," nursing care must be ordered by a physician and delivered by, or under the supervision of, a professional such as a physical therapist, registered nurse or licensed practical nurse. Moreover, such care must be delivered on a daily basis. (Few nursing home residents receive this level of care.)

As soon as the nursing facility determines that a patient is no longer receiving a skilled level of care, the Medicare coverage ends. And, beginning on day 21 of the nursing home stay, there is a significant copayment equal to one-eighth of the initial hospital deductible ($152 a day in 2014). This copayment will usually be covered by a Medigap insurance policy, provided the patient has one

Nursing homes often terminate Medicare coverage for SNF care before they should. Two misunderstandings most often result in inappropriate denial of Medicare coverage to SNF patients. First, many nursing homes assume in error that if a patient has stopped making progress towards recovery then Medicare coverage should end. In fact, if the patient needs continued skilled care simply to maintain his or her status (or to slow deterioration) then the care should be provided and is covered by Medicare.

Second, nursing homes may wrongly believe that care requiring only supervision (rather than direct administration) by a skilled nurse is excluded from Medicare's SNF benefit. In fact, patients often receive an array of treatments that don't need to be carried out by a skilled nurse but that may, in combination, require skilled supervision. In these instances, if the potential for adverse interactions among multiple treatments requires that a skilled nurse monitor the patient's care and status, then Medicare will continue to provide coverage.

When a patient leaves a hospital and moves to a nursing home that provides Medicare coverage, the nursing home must give the patient written notice of whether the nursing home believes that the patient requires a skilled level of care and thus merits Medicare coverage. Even in cases where the SNF initially treats the patient as a Medicare recipient, after two or more weeks, often, the SNF will determine that the patient no longer needs a skilled level of care and will issue a "Notice of Non-Coverage" terminating the Medicare coverage.

In order to be eligible for Medicaid benefits a nursing home resident may have no more than $2,000 in "countable" assets (the figure may be somewhat higher in some states). Note that Medicaid is a state-run program, so the rules are somewhat different in each state, although there are federal guidelines.

The spouse of a nursing home resident--called the "community spouse" -- is limited to one half of the couple's joint assets up to $117,240 (in 2014) in "countable" assets. This figure changes each year to reflect inflation. Called the "community spouse resource allowance," this is the most that a state may allow a community spouse to retain without a hearing or a court order. The least that a state may allow a community spouse to retain is $23,448 (in 2014).

Example: If a couple has $100,000 in countable assets on the date the applicant enters a nursing home, he or she will be eligible for Medicaid once the couple's assets have been reduced to a combined figure of $52,000 -- $2,000 for the applicant and $50,000 for the community spouse.

All assets are counted against these limits unless the assets fall within the short list of "noncountable" assets. These include the following:
•Personal possessions, such as clothing, furniture, and jewelry
•One motor vehicle, regardless of value, as long as it is used for transportation of the applicant or a household member. The value of an additional automobile may be excluded if needed for health or self-support reasons (check your state's rules).
•The applicant's principal residence, provided it is in the same state in which the individual is applying for coverage. In some states, the home will not be considered a countable asset for Medicaid eligibility purposes as long as the nursing home resident intends to return home; in other states, the nursing home resident must prove a likelihood of returning home. In all states and under the DRA, the house may be kept with no equity limit if the Medicaid applicant's spouse or another dependent relative lives there
•Prepaid funeral plans and a small amount of life insurance
•Assets that are considered "inaccessible" for one reason or another

Long term care planning combines the goals of estate planning along with
​ ​the concerns of protecting and preserving assets from the very substantial
​ ​costs of long term care, such as extended home bound or institutionalized
​ ​nursing home care. Long term care planning addresses the question:
“What if I become seriously ill and disabled and will need extensive home
​ ​bound care or need to live in a nursing home for a long time”?
Eligibility for the government program commonly known as Medicaid or Medical Assistance ​for long term care support is very strict on the gifting of assets and
​ ​transfers for less than fair value. Generally, all gifts or such transfers
​ ​made within five-seven​ (5-7​) years of entering a nursing home need to be
​ ​disclosed and reported on the Medicaid Application Form and sworn to
​ ​under oath. Gifts made within five (5) years could result in the denial of
​ ​eligibility and benefits for a period of days or months depending upon the
​ ​aggregate value of the gifts and the application of a formula. However,
​ ​gifts below a certain amount or to a disabled child, even if made within five(5) years, may not be subject to a penalty period of ineligibility.
​ ​Gifting by a person who is concerned about the possibility of having to
​ ​enter a nursing home within five (5) years should seek expert advice from
​ ​an elder law attorney to understand the applicable Medicaid gifting rules what gifting may be permitted, and the “penalty” of ineligibility which would
​ ​be imposed for non-permitted gifts.
When you or a loved one enters a
​ ​nursing home you or your authorized representative will sign a Nursing
​ ​Home Admission Agreement (a contract). This contract will set forth the
​ ​services to be provided and the cost you will pay for these services. If
​ ​able, you may leave the nursing home at any time. You will be using your
​money, and perhaps some payments by Medicare, to pay for the nursing
​ ​home costs.
​ ​If and when you run out of money and are still in need of full-time nursing
​ ​home care, you can apply for the payment of your nursing home bill by the
​ ​federally sponsored and state administered program commonly referred to
​ ​as either Medicaid or Medical Assistance for long term care support .If you would like to take steps to save and protect your assets before
​ ​paying everything to the nursing home, you should see an elder law
​ ​attorney for the development of an estate and long term care plan to
​ ​legally protect your savings and achieve eligibility for Medical Assistance

Oh I know about the 5-7 year look back program well. And mother won't do anything about the brothers, she says let them have it.

You may try applying for medicaid, medicaid covers long term care as noted in infolongtermcare.org, however, her income / asset should not exceed $2000. Medicaid has a poverty criteria, so if she have 5k in bank, it should be spent on paying for her care, otherwise, you might get declined. Medicaid has a 5 year look back program, so it is advisable to get the help of an elder care lawyer.