Can you force someone to see a doctor?

No. Why would you want to force her? If it was broken, she'd be in excruciating pain. I myself probably wouldn't go to the doctor. Further, a trip to the DOCTOR would be a waste of two hours in the waiting room. He'd just send her for an x-ray to cover his behind. Pick your battles. To me? This isn't one I'd address.

I agree, don't force your Mom to go to a doctor unless it is an emergency.

I believe some people rather not go to a doctor of any type because they are afraid the doctor might find something that needs attention. It's the fear of the unknown, and I can understand that.

Heidi, my Mom has the opposite problem, she insists on going to her annual appointments with a whole group of different doctors, and at 96 she still insist on getting a mammogram [it takes two technicians to help her because she is frail], and I am thinking even on the remote chance something is found, Mom couldn't have surgery nor could survive chemo at her age. But I still take her.

Nope, you cannot force someone to go to the clinic or ER if they don't want to go. I went through this with my bedridden father last year. Based on his coughing and phlegm, I knew he had pneumonia. He refused to go. I called 911 and Begged for an ambulance (told them the truth that dad would refuse to go), they came, questioned him, he passed their dementia test, they left without taking him. They were quite gentle in telling me that they cannot force him against his will.

I then called APS. You know -his decision was a danger to his health. I was told that he has a right to refuse medical help. If he wants to die, that is his choice. They then referred me to an elder law attorney. I was told the same thing. Finally, I was told here on this site that eventually the pain will force my dad to seek medical help. Yep, a week later, he told me to call the ambulance and take him to ER.

Heidi, it's infuriating, maddening and idiotic. But rest your mind - if she's done any serious damage to her arm it will soon be so obvious that even she won't be able to ignore it.

[Um. A bit swollen in the forearm, but where was the impact, did she let you see? Just a heads up - you want to keep an eye out for anything she might have dislodged in her elbow. But worry about that if it doesn't start getting better of its own accord.]

And if I were you I'd frame that letter and use it as a shield next time she accuses you of neglecting her duty. "Here, mother, see? Your instructions. Your signature. So." Mind you then she'd probably only move on to accusing you of forgery instead… groan. You can't win.

Don't start treating this, by the way, if she asks you for heat packs or ice packs or rubs or anything. When it comes to treatment it's your way (MOTHER SEE A DOCTOR) or nothing.

Is there a governmental body to call and ask them too conduct a wellness check on the person?

Do you know her doctor's name? Do you have a signed HIPAA giving you access to information from her caregivers? If not you can talk to doctor to give information but doctor can't give you answers

Invest a few hundred dollars and visit with a elder affairs attorney and get your family documents in order. Being next of kin means nothing.

Maybe next time, if you think she really needs medical attention, you could refuse to get her cigarettes until she gets checked out. She'd probably yell and carry on, but you'd have the upper hand. No smokes until she sees a doctor.

Agree with Sodonewithsal1!! Stop buying her cigarettes! Sounds like she needs an evaluation overall. Tell her you'll buy her cigarettes after you take her to the doctors. You are enabling her narcissistic behavior. My Dad was like this but had dementia and refused to go to the doctor after several falls. Well, the last one did him in and now he is in a nursing home for 2.5 years. So you decide. Sorry to be so blunt, just hate to see people go through what I went through.

xo
-SS

If she was my mother (which she is not), she would have had the arm x-ray. It should not have been a forced issue she should want to know if it was broken.
I would have told her we would get the cigarettes after we got the x-ray or she would do without smoking.
It goes without saying that she needs to be under a doctor's care, a good primary doctor. Sounds like mental health issues could be in play, or she has some ongoing infections which are upsetting her personality--either way a doctor's workup seems in order.
The smoking is a problem too, not just the health issue but if she has mobility issues (falling into the refrigerator) then she will likely fall asleep smoking and light up the house.
Either way she will be seeing a doctor, if she continues to ignore the health problems---she will land in a hospital and then be under medical care.
If there is no reasoning with her, then just let things ride and be prepared to call the EMTs when she ends up traveling to the local ER.
You are not a sucker/child for trying to help her, at some point she will not be able to live without her daughter's help and she will hopefully correct the attitude at that point. You are trying to be a good daughter, she is lucky you care.

In the area where we live, there are a growing number of doctors who make house calls for elderly patients. In fact, several doctors only do housecalls for the elderly as their entire practice. They can order in x-rays right to the house, blood tests, etc. All this comes to the house to prevent the senior from having to leave his or her home. All these services take Medicare.

Don't know if this is an option for you, but wanted to mention it as it might help you or someone else.

Meanwhile, to echo the chorus, yes, you cannot force your mom to see a doctor. Only a guardian can force someone to do something. As it's been explained to us, seniors have the right to make bad decisions. However, if your mom were to be found incompetent and you named the guardian, then that's a different story. She no longer has the right to make decisions and you or whomever's guardian makes all of them for her. This is another just another option.

We don't know if there is a word that describes what we go through when we are forced to sit back and watch our parents make bad decisions. "Frustrated" doesn't even begin to cover it.

Dave recommended a welfare check. We recommend you keep APS or the police out of your business until it's an emergency. At that point, call 911 for the police and/or an ambulance. The police are needed in case your mom is seriously hurt or in danger but is refusing assistance. The ambulance will take her to the ER for care.

Refuse to get her cigarettes and she'll do just about anything for you (bitching the whole time). Don't take anything personally and know you are her angel whether she realizes it or not. ; )

You're dealing with a difficult relationship. You're angry not just at her but at yourself for how you play into it. There's a lot of growing you can do on your own, in terms of how you participate in this. Think more about YOUR choices and less about how to make her change hers. That will actually achieve more change than anything else -- and the stuff it won't change, it'll change how you feel about it.

I didn't ask the question, but I want to thank everyone for their responses. My MIL who is now 98 has refused to go to a doctor for the last 10 years and she wasn't mentally disabled at that time. I was feeling threatened as her caretaker w/o gardianship or POA not to be able to convince to go. Now I understand my rights/role a bit better. You are correct: in her mind you go to a hospital to die . . . to go to a doctor to find out what you don't want to know (and they don't know what they are talking about anyway.) She has excellent supplementary insurance that I made sure she would have so when the time comes she will be covered. Fortunately she also inherited all the "good" genes so her health has been relatively good. But -- she is 98 years old and absolutely refuses to even take an asprin for a headache!

I have the same situation, just substitute "cigarettes" for "beer". My dad takes medicine to prevent blood clots. We were told explicitly that if he ever hits his head he should go to the ER immediately, because he may have bleeding in the brain due to the clotting medicine. Nope. He falls, hits his head, and refuses to go to the hospital. This has happened more than once. He doesn't want to spend money on the co-pays, even though he can easily afford it. I told him "good luck", and that somebody will let me know if he dies.

It could be fractured. Still worth having it checked.

It sounds like it is not even about going to a doctor. You have a classic addict/enabler relationship, period. How many times did you say 'cigarettes'? One of the most addictive things on the planet; and you enable mom to get them because I don't know of a delivery service that will! Why even be a part of this bi-polar need you/don't need you scene? This issue isn't 'doctor' the issue is POWER. Oh, and believe me, I have had parents that sat around and made bad decisions, had the power [the money] and the ability to do so because other people [not me] where their YES men. I refused to play the game; it only works when 2 play it. In the end, my mom would make statements like 'I want to move my house to make the neighbors mad'. Any sane person needs to just walk away from this. Send cards, see her for holidays, but don't be part of the madness [or the ADDICTION] and walk away and make the relationship what YOU want, not what she wants...

Heidi, sounds like your Mom has her favorite brand of cigarettes... since advertising of cigarettes are far and few between here in the States, any chance you could tell your Mom that brand is no longer available.... and bring her home a brand that you know she won't like. Of course, she might get use to the other brand, or decide it's not worth smoking anymore. You might be able to clear that smoking hurdle.

Thanks, everyone.
Leolady 2007: My husband was saying my mom sounds like an addict. That's always when she gets the most dramatic, when she's running low on her poison. (She doesn't have a favorite brand, Freqflyer, she'll smoke anything. She prefers the cheapest, but the only thing unacceptable for her is not having her cigarettes.
We have tried a number of things to get her help. In the past when she's been in the hospital (for a UTI where she had a bad bout of delusions) they did a psych evaluation. Nothing. She answered the questions the right way. (She also knows when her rent is due and her pill schedule, so she's got her head on straight in ways.)
Her doctor (and past doctors) have been informed repeatedly about the delusions and the tantrums. We get nowhere with it because she passes their dementia tests well enough.
I've called the Area Agency on Aging and Alzheimer's Association and other places trying to get direction or help and the consensus is you can always try to take it to court but they say it's pretty much an uphill battle up an icy hill.
Last night she called while I was at a friend's and all of a sudden she was like, "Oh I don't think I just hit my arm the other day, I must have hit my head!" She said she was tired and so on. Well, I asked if she wanted me to take her to the hospital. Nope. "Just call me back in an hour and see if I'm still alive."
Now, she's done that in the past so much it's like crying wolf and I tend to believe she's more likely to do it for a reaction than anything. Even one of my friends, who has worked with the elderly in the past said, "It sounds like she wants attention." But I talked to her a bit and then called her back an hour later and she'd napped a bit and said she felt better. (Again, I think it was she'd gotten attention and was calmed by it.) So I left it at that. I'll check again today to see if she got some good rest, but I'm just kind of tired of it.
I used to really worry but I've heard so many threats, gotten so many letters and lectures telling me I'm a jerk or never to talk to her again. I've also heard so many fake diagnoses and talk of doom. She had polyps in her colon and told me it was cancer; later the truth came out. She says she has mini strokes or heart attacks. When it's been timed with a doctor's appointment they'll do a chest x-ray or something and it seems fine.
When I was 11 she told me she had stomach cancer and I was devastated. Then, nothing.
Me: Hey mom, are you going to get treatment?
Her: For what?
Me: Your stomach cancer.
Her: What?
Me: You said you had stomach cancer.
Her: What? Oh no, I don't have that.
Me: But you said you did. Why would you say you have cancer if you don't. I was terrified you were going to die.
Her: Oh, don't be silly. I was just being eccentric.
I've heard that eccentric line for so many years. I've brought it up in the past, citing it was an example of why I'm annoyed or leery. She just replies that I hang on to the bad or only think nasty things of her. Well, I'd kind of like some truth here. Something honest, and not someone who's making crap up because they're bored or angry or depressed or whatever.
She's even threatened suicide if I don't get her her cigarettes and then again, I get labeled a jerk for being annoyed about it. And if I say, "how would you like it if I said I was going to cut my wrists because you wouldn't buy me a pair of earrings?" she doesn't get it.
So it's a dilemma. This old, feeble yet manipulative mother vs. a daughter who is tired of being expected to be her mother's dog. I want to give her real help, and not deal with this drama and lying and crazy talk anymore.

I agree with most others; don't be buying the cigarettes. To me, it's the same thing for people that can't get out of bed because they eat/weigh too much. Someone has to be bringing in the food/cigarettes or they would not be able to get them.
This should be on YOUR terms. If she goes for regular check-ups have a discussion in front of her with her doctor about your situation. Protect yourself. If worse comes to worse, call EMS to check her out at her home. Good Luck & God Bless all who write in for help and those that respond with their ideas! We're all in this together; together is a GOOD place to be!

Heidi73, oh the old crying wolf routine.... it can be exhausting for those who are faced with someone who does that on a regular basis because you never know if there will be a time when the person is really serious.

My sig other's daughter did the wolf "cancer" thing and she is only in her 30's. She told her father she is dying from skin cancer, told her husband and 7 and 9 year old that mommy has cancer and would die next year, yada, yada, yada. It was academy award performance. Those poor children hearing that. Now we just roll our eyes whenever she has a new *fad* illness. Next time she tells me she is dying I plan to say "that's too bad, we will miss you".

As for the cigarette buying, keep stalling on the buying because you just don't have to the time right now, maybe next week.... keep dragging it out further and further.

If you think she has hurt herself and you are the one making decisions you can call the fire department (911). They can give her a good check to assess and help you make a decision if she really needs a doctor. They will NOT force her to go any further or bill her, especially if you are there.I agree with the suggestions; refuse to buy her cigarettes as a means of compromise for future.
Good luck.

Not quite sure of your situation. You definitely cannot force treatment on anyone if the are lucid enough and refuse it. Not lucid you can call for helo. Actual vs implied consent. That said, if you hadn't thought of this, consider making sure you document her refusal well and preferably have a witness. I have a similar situation (minus the cigs). I figure at least if she takes a good serious fall (she has recently fallen and injured her wrist but got up and tries to carry on, refusing help) or something, I am going to call 911 and if she wants to refuse help she can do it to them and not me. Might get her the help she needs, will definitely get good documentation of my attempts to get help. Speaking of somethibg serious, I would not burden the 911 system for something minor. Just a few things to consider. Hang in there.

Cigarettes??? I would be scared to death she'd start a fire. The last thing she needs is cigarettes. If I were you, I would stop making cigarettes available to her. If she throws a fit, let her throw a fit. Better than having the house burn down and her along with it!

To Runragged:,As I understand in Illinois a Guardian is not the same as A POA
many a POA try to assume the power of Guardian and fail

Thank you, everyone. I love this place. It's nice to know I'm not alone and just being able to vent and read other people's posts and answers is such a comfort.

Heidi I can sympathize with you. My mother who will be 81 in a week is very stubborn. She has fallen numerous times and refuses to go to ER or to see a doctor. She smokes like a fiend and moans and groans all day long about her back (she has spinal stenosis and scoliosous). We have been down every avenue you can think of to force her to get help and there is nothing that we can do! I believe she has dementia as she cannot remember what she has eaten, when she changed her nightgown and on and on. Yet because she know her name and what day it is, that's it...sorry she is fine to make her own decisions. God help us....at least you don't live with your mother. I do! And it is a living hell! I feel trapped because I don't have the heart to leave her. Guess this was no help but it helped me unload!

And the scary part about living with a parent who was never diagnosed with dementia and refusing medical help - is when they DO get hurt, I have this feeling that the police, the DA and APS will hold us live-in family caregiver Responsible. Therefore, we may be charged for Elderly Neglect or abuse. Very stressful situation. Went through the whole hoopla with every govt agency passing the buck to another agency . So, it's very very fortunate that you're not living the parent or the parent is living with you. That just brings up your stress level up another notch.

Since you're not living with your mom, I'd do the withholding of the cigarettes. Depending how she reacts, she might become very angry with you. But, no problem since you're not there to watch your back from her. She can't accuse you of abusing her - because you're not living with her to be accused of that. So, you have more leeway in handling your mom. I hope it works!

One more word of caution: And hope it doesn't backfire on you. Somehow. Someway.... I've seen my oldest sister react when she tried to quit smoking and went into withdrawal. It's not a pretty thing to watch. That's how I learned at the tender age of my early teens that I would never ever smoke a cigarette.

She is too smart for you. Tell her, and mean it:

First: You have to see a doctor, may be get an X-ray.

Second: after you see a doctor, THEN I'll get your ciggies.

Got it? Don't let her beat you again.

OK, today, new developments. (Sort of.)
I get an "urgent" call from my mom. What does she want? She wants me to go to the pharmacy across the street from my house and get her her Xanax and her Vicodin. Of course, it's Labor Day here in the U.S. and it's a neighborhood pharmacy so it's not open. I tell her that.
"Oh, my arm hurts and I think it's broken." I remind her, it's Labor Day, so it's pretty much the only option, and if it's broken, then medical treatment is the way to go.
She does not want to go. She mainly wants her xanax, because she gets a big, strong prescription and it says take "up to three a day." Besides cigarettes her great love is her Xanax. She insists it's good for her heart.
I had this moment where I just thought, I can't do this anymore, and I'm tired of being her whipping post. So I say, I'll take you to the hospital today or to the doctor tomorrow to see if it's broken, and then when the pharmacy is open we can get whatever medications they prescribe.
I'm just tired of the tantrums and so on. If she doesn't get her way immediately she starts to say she'll find someone else to do it but I always get the call. But I'm not doing a thing until she agrees to see a doctor or go to the hospital. I'm so not in the mood to go chasing after her cigarettes or going to get her some xanax just to shut off threats of suicide or being insulted and being called nasty or ungrateful.

Ahhh, I see there's been progress. ;)