Can you classify an Amazon Echo as an assistive device under the Americans with Disabilities Act?

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Can you classify an Amazon Echo as an assistive device under the Americans with Disabilities Act?

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My dad, age 97, is currently living in Assisted Living with the least level of assistance (medicine assistance). He is capable of all ADL's but he can't see sufficiently to read or write and has some minor short-term memory issues. This means he can't write a note or see a clock or remember that there is an appointment or activity at a certain time. For years we have used an Amazon Alexa to provide him these alerts - wake-up alarms, reminders that dinner is being served in the dining room, happy hour is starting in the lounge, doctor's appointment in XX minutes, etc. He also uses it to create grocery lists for me (they show up on my phone) as he can't write out a list for me. It gives him a level of independence without having me constantly phone him with reminders.

The Assisted Living facility just sent a note to residents telling them that using an Alexa or similar device in their apartments is not allowed. I currently plan to just ignore this note but wondered if I could fight this rule under the American's with Disabilities Act as he is using it as an assistive device for his disability. Any ADA experts out there that can give me some insight into this?

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Great! Its not so much its helpful its your Dad is disabled and it gives him a better quality of life.

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Original Poster with my, hopefully, final update

Got a telephone response from the director of the assisted living facility from the letter I sent and they said "Fine, your dad can keep his Alexa." (This was the right answer.) It seems that the corporate office had an issue in one of their other facilities where a family member was using the "drop in" feature and recording all conversations in the unit, without the knowledge of the resident. So for now, I'm good and the director of the facility said that when he talked to the corporate office he let them know that it was a real help to residents and they needed to reevaluate their policy.

Now I'm off to reinstall the Alexa. Next up is to solve the problem that the wifi connection keeps dropping.

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I really feel in Dads circumstance they will need to let him have it. And, I would pursue it. There are laws in place for the disabled and we have to fight to get people to abide by them. We have a situation where I live with an Autistic boy. He has a service dog that the school is refusing to allow him bring the dog to school. It cost 20k to train this dog. I have a disabled nephew and a friend with 2 challenged boys. Both my SIL, in NC and my friend in NJ had to fight for their children's rights to certain compensations. They shouldn't have had to do this. The schools should have complied because its the law.

So, pursue it. Your Dad is legally blind and deserves to have what he needs to make his life easier. This is from a woman whose DH has been legally deaf (can hear but hard time distinguishing words) for most of his life. He has butted heads with the system for years. Pretty much gave up so I do it for him. 😊

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Original Poster here with a status update:

Again this month the newsletter contained the admonition that Alexa and Alexa-like devices were not allowed. I've read his entrance documents and lease multiple times and have found no reference to this rule but that doesn't mean it didn't change and I didn't get the notification.

So, for now I've rigged a way of getting him his calendar reminders by using an old cell phone with wifi capability (no SIM card) and a good speaker attached via Bluetooth, and an app called "Talk Me Calendar". It will take the info on the calendar and speak it at the time for which it is scheduled. By using descriptive calendar entries I can keep him informed of events and activities. It is using info that is on the phone (off his Google calendar), not an interactive system, so I have to input the info and he can't interact with it to add a reminder. So, this is only solving a small part of the problem.

I've also drafted a letter requesting reasonable accommodation based on a template from the Maine Department on Aging. Very straightforward and references the Americans with Disabilities Act and the Fair Housing Act. They suggested requesting a written response within 7 days. So, after I drop it off tomorrow will have to wait a week to see what happens. I've decided that trying to craft a McGuyvered solution to this problem is crazy since I know they won't win this one if I pursue it.

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Thanks for the update! Will be interested to hear what they have to say... Although this doesn't impact us (mom's bigger problem is hearing, but who knows what the future will bring for her or others!) it is interesting and the outcome might be very useful to others (the original information might help others who have similar issues as well.)

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As other's have asked "Why?" Also, look at the Admission Agreement you signed when he moved in and see if it states in there that they are not allowed, if not you should be able to have one.

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A dictation app. I wonder if they have it for android. My husband only has 20/30% of his hearing in right ear. Left he is deaf in. He also does not sign. Thank you!

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Privet connection to the internet may solve the problem. These things do so much, will read a book to you, tell jokes "Did you hear about the football play from a galaxy far far away? It's called the Java the Hut Hut." Really lame jokes but funny. It will sing you a song, tell you the tempt., remind you of stuff, wake you with an alarm, and if you need something from the store you have it add to your list which can be accessed by your loved ones phone so they get what you need while shopping. I have two smart plugs in the house so it turns on my lights when I ask and turns off my lights when I ask. This is just a small amount of the things it will do. I don't feel alone with it in the house. One funny thing though that happened, a few years ago the echo was ordering doll houses everytime a commercial came on with a little girl asking Alexa to order one. We got an e-mail on how to stop that, just had to set it up so no orders could go through without confirming it. Good thing because two days latter Alexa asks me if I want the doll house order to go through. LOL

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Have you tried contacting the COB - Commissioner of the Blind about your issue?

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There is so much Alexxa (Amazon Echo) can do for the elderly in addition to what has already been mentioned. Paired with their phone, it can make calls. They can use it as an alarm, list maker, activity reminder, birthday reminder, music, play games, or use with Prime TV to find shows. If you read the reviews under the device on Amazon 's website, you can get even more ideas. All activities can be monitored from your home computer or phone through your Amazon account.

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I'm very much of the "forgiveness" instead of "permission" kind of person--I have had an Alexa for over a year (as I sit here listening to Billy Joel!) and although I have heard there have been some concerns about security with one linking to a phone or using as a recording--in reality WHAT do people have to record in an ALF? Possible abuse by staff? Then they need to deal with that, not just chuck the baby out with the bathwater b/c of "some privacy concerns".

Alexa is a little tricky to use--for me, I have 3 around the house and if I say ANYTHING that sounds like her "name" she starts talking to me. I know I look like an idiot, finally yelling at her to "please be quiet" (DH reminds me I do not need to be so polite to her)....but if you have it set up for your dad AND it's taking some of the minutia of CG off the staff, why would they have a problem??

I hope you follow up on this. More and more people are going to want to have one of these amazing devices. Slowly as the "old generation" passes on people are going to rely on newer and newer devices to help them.

We ran this idea past both my mother and MIL, They were both appalled, thinking that someone they DIDN'T KNOW was in their house. No amount of talking and explaining to them there is NOBODY THERE could calm them down to even consider using one.

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I would first just ask them their reasoning and then explain how and why you are using it for your father. See if you can work it out before getting all het up about it.

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If you just go ahead and use it, you may arrive one day and find it missing. I would challenge them on their rule. The reasons you got it for him more than begin to prove it's an assistant device to make his life easier. I live alone but have an Echo Dot and use it for all the reasons you have for him use it. And I love the fact it will tell me a joke to cheer me up.

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She tells jokes? God, we could sure use one in the office! I wonder if we could program it to tell someone they are wearing too much cologne? Or to shut up because they are TOO LOUD!

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I love this thread. I don't know the answer to your question but in my opinion it should be allowed. I installed a Google Home for my disabled husband and it made my and his life easier. I also felt easier leaving him for a bit with the device active. He is no longer home but I thinking am of adding one at his Board and Care. I have even added an additional unit in my home and its just me here.

There may be any number of reasons for the care facility to not want to allow these devices but I think it is a knee jerk reaction to new technology. (Privacy, technology, bandwidth, maintenance, and staff time not knowing how or wanting to help). Yes there are issues but many of the benefits out way the issues. Besides the normal things this device can do it can enhance life.

If the issue comes up I would be prepared to defend the device at every turn.

Good luck and please let us know the outcome of that you find.

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We got a couple for our home. My 93 yr old mom lives with us in a basement apt and we thought it would be a good idea to put one near her. Thinking if anything happens she can call for us or call for help. Unfortunately, we took it away because she kept unplugging it. When we asked why she said that that "thing" was the devil.

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we can relate...can't use the gps in the car because my mom insists it is the devil and we will die if we follow its directions...

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I don't know what anyone else is saying (yet) but I say HELL YES! If this hasn't been done prior (claiming it via ADA) you be the first one! You've inspired me to check in with my sister who is just 4 years younger, but more tech savvy to learn more about this and see if it might not be helpful here. That's with dad going on 102 and deaf, but uses an iphone; and mom is 96 and has dementia but is still somewhat functional. She uses hearing aids so she could hear the voice of Alexa. Why in the world would the AL say they are not allowed? Noise? People can be loud as well. In fact, from a legal perspective, I'd be thinking this is a violation of one's personal rights. I'd be contacting an elder law attorney for some input and guidance. What will they ban next? Telephones, computers, TV's? And you know what...I wonder if there is some way to go to the top of Amazon's company and ask THEM for some assistance if this goes further. I bet they would love to know someone is trying to ban their product! Go get 'em!!!

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I hope you will get a reason, on paper, why this device is being banned. And need more proof than " it's potentially intrusive" ...yada, yada... statement.
I'll be following on this discussion.

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I would come forward and challenge the facility's ban on these. Likely, as others have said, it has to do with privacy and HIPAA issues. By banning them altogether, they (theoretically) avoid security breaches. But smartphones aren't called that for no reason; they can probably be manipulated to "listen," too.

I'd ask why directly. Maybe contact your area's office on aging, the state agency that governs ALFs/others, etc. See what your rights are in the matter. Maybe even gain support of family members of other residents there who use these things for their loved ones. I'm a Luddite - had no idea these Dot things could be so useful. I bought myself 2 for Christmas...but I have no idea how to use them! (Couldn't resist the price.) Your idea of appealing to the person in charge's IT capabilities is interesting. Don't succumb to tech - get in front of it so it can help other residents. The app is a great idea.

Such an interesting question. Do share the resolution when you have one. Good luck.

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This is a fascinating thread. I don't have one of these devices but I see where their use in caregiving is wonderful.
Keep us posted as to outcome.

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What an interesting thread! My kids gave me an Echo Dot for Christmas and I love it! I, too, thought about getting one for my parents’ room at the nursing home, but neither of them have sufficient voice control or volume to give it commands. I have to lean in to hear them, and even then it is often unintelligible. I am curious to hear how others use Alexa with caregiving.

As I understand the device, it is always on but not always recording. It needs the wake up word, Alexa, to start recording. I suppose it is possuble to remotely command it to record. “Alexa, record from 6:00 to 9:00 a.m.”, to spy on a morning routine in their room. Pretty creepy! If it could be used like that, that would definitely affect the privacy of all involved.

I am not interested in covert surveillance. I am interested in using it for entertainment, but can’t see how it would be feasible since they would be unable to give it commands. They do not need to be given remote reminders.

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The ability to "spy" is a feature available to those who pair their echo to their phone, apparently when you call you are immediately connected to the echo without the need for the call recipient to answer, you can simply call and drop in (I only know what I read, I don't have theses devices).

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A few people on the forum have mentioned using these kinds of devices as a kind of remote surveillance tool, I imagine that is the thing that the ban is attempting to address. This is only going to get more complicated as new technology races ahead of the laws and policies designed to protect our privacy.

BTW, I love your idea of having a smart assistant available in every room, using tech that way is a brilliant idea!

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Maybe thats the problem. They don't want the aides being taped.

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Original poster here -
I haven't asked the ALF what their concern is as I plan to keep using it until they specifically ask him to get rid of it. Since they provided no explanation other than "No Alexa or alexa-like devices are allowed" I have no idea what their concerns are. It does run on their building provided wifi but if wifi was a concern they should ban all smart TV's, and streaming media devices which take far more bandwidth. He is in a separate 1 bedroom apartment with full privacy - lock on the door, etc.

The really crazy part is that their new director has a background in Information Technology and I was just getting ready to ask if they could develop an Alexa app that could be used to keep residents informed of activities and menus. I thought an app that residents could query each day on the activities, events and menus of the day would be very helpful. Won't be asking that question now! They post the info in the elevator and at the concierge desk but my dad can't read any of it. I use Alexa to keep him informed.

I've thought about the smart phone idea with it attached to a bluetooth speaker. It could perform the same functions, just in an unnecessarily clumsy manner. Whatever he has it must be voice activated as he is blind.

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I would still call Depts of the Blind and Disabilities to be ready.

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This gentleman is in his own self-contained apartment in the facility, yes? He has consented to the system and can be presumed to understand what it does. Any issues being discussed within hearing of the device should be his issues; anyone in his apartment can be made aware that he is using the device; anyone in his apartment discussing another resident's issues is violating HIPAA requirements anyway and maybe it's no bad thing if they get busted for it.

What privacy violations, then, that we're not all vulnerable to wherever we go?

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Just chiming in with curiosity about what the ALF's problem is?

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That's just crazy. I would ask them why they are banned. It can't be a noise issue or they would have to ban TVs too.

If they insist on the ban, get your dad a smartphone. They can't ban them from having a phone right? Google assistant on a smartphone is as good as a Alexa. He'll just have to say "OK Google" instead of Alexa.

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Just got an email fro Google, they are closing down a lot of their stuff.

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Maybe a LOT of the residents are using Alexa--Iknow ours is really sensitive to her "name" and even any word that is close to "ALexa" and she's wanting to help you!

I don't know how I got along w/o mine for so long. My DH has become incredibly forgetful and we ARE going to sit down this weekend and make a reminder list for him to ask her every morning. "Alexa, what do I need for the day?" and she'll tell him what he needs to walk out the door to work. And then a list for "Travel". Last week alone I had to run his passport out to his office and give it to him---he's so very, very forgetful. Leaves something home EVERY SINGLE DAY. (today it was his phone).

And the help with lists!!!! It has saved my bacon more than once.

I would want to know precisely why this simple yet amazing device is considered banned now. The music alone is worth the monthly fee!!

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What is their reasoning, their wifi can't deal with them?

Call your state or county agency of the blind and run it by them. If this is a tool he needs to better the quality of his life, then the AL has to allow it. You should have a County Dept of disabilities you can call.

If the wifi is the problem, then ask if he can have private wifi. If he is paying for cable, then he can get wifi.

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Just to add: as said prior my dad is deaf. He uses the dictation app on his iphone to have others speak, then he reads what was said. One time he was having a nerve block procedure in a "branch" office of the Cleveland CLinic. For "safety" motivated reasons, they took away his iphone and his eyeglasses, and consequently because of the ignorance took away his ability to communicate and violated his rights under the ADA. I was in the waiting room and clueless until a so called nurse or aide came out requesting family to help communicate because "all" they wanted to do was ask if he would like a beverage. I got in touch with the higher ups who were VERY concerned and apologetic and conveyed retraining would be done. I think we would have had a legal standing if we had pursued it. It's quite something...now it's like if you convey he is deaf, they jump and want to know if we need a translator...but dad does not sign.

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Can you classify an Amazon Echo as an assistive device under the Americans with Disabilities Act?

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