My step dad (77) has only peripheral vision in one eye, macular degeneration in the other, and recently lost consciousness behind the wheel, caused a serious accident, and received 3 tickets. By Illinois law he was supposed to have his license suspended for 6 months, but somehow that was not submitted to the state. He is not safe, but thinks he should drive ('must not be that bad') since he has his license and it is not suspended.
Suggestions appreciated. I don't know where to start. His doctor, SOS, health department, or other.
Suggestions appreciated.
When my mom's dementia became such that driving was a horrible idea, her doctor told her (at my insistence). She had already kind of stopped due to winter weather, fear of ice, etc. So I just hid her keys in case she got any bright ideas of going for a ride and then just reminded her that she could have an accident and KILL SOMEONE, maybe young children, etc. I could not bear the idea of that happening and could not deal with the guilt of it, if the worst ever were to happen.
Just thought of another idea - have him go for an eye exam at motor vehicle. There's no way he could pass is there? I would also call whoever is in charge of this mandatory suspension and see what the hold up is?
Good luck. He's not going to be happy but this is about safety - his and the that of the innocent people on the road.
I use their vehicles to transport them for appointments and errands, as my vehicle is not 'senior friendly', so theirs will have to stay.
I have asked him to consider the fact that he could seriously harm my mother or someone else, and not think only about himself.
He won't like any of this and will be in a rage for a while but you must step in and be prepared to substitute his need to drive by providing rides and having his necessities delivered, etc.
I am not sure when his license will naturally expire, but I will be reaching out to the DMV.
The safest and quickest is obviously to take the car keys/disable the vehicle. That should be your first priority. Remove the ability literally to drive a vehicle. And make sure that he does not have access to any other vehicles.
Then you can start the process of revoking his license. In my state - there is a form that the DMV needs completed. If you look on the DMV website for your state there should be a forms section - on mine it is called the Medical Report Form and it has to be filled out by their physician. You can anonymously report him to the DMV yourself and initiate this. My FIL was supposed to have been reported by his eye doctor as well - per them - when he became legally blind/uncorrectable with glasses. They told him that they had to report it. But nothing was ever done as far as we can tell.
His license expires next month. We are not taking him to renew it. We are going to allow it to expire. He has no access to any car keys. He is going to completely freak out and we know it. But he is not safe to be driving and there is no point in him having a drivers license. He could have a state id if necessary - but at almost 90 years old - and already in possession of a photo military ID we aren't even sure that with that and expired license and credit cards that will even be necessary.
I often feel like there should be more rigorous oversight - especially in situations like yours where actual harm has already been done and the police have already been involved. I do not understand why he even still has his license at this point from a legal standpoint if there is a law on the books. Has he had to go to to court or has he just paid those tickets and walked away? His insurance must be astronomical! It its a a wonder they haven't cancelled him already!
I'm hoping he will not be hireable. I'll be looking into the DMV forms you mentioned. Thank you.
I would think after that accident that SD would be scared to drive. Has he been to see a doctor about losing consciousness? He could have had a mini stroke. His doctors can report him to DMV. My Gson was told to stop driving because of seizures by his PCP and that PCP reported it to DMV. It took from Jan to March for the DMV to contact my Gson and then gave him till April to send them his license.
He has had every scan known for a diagnosis, with no results. However, the EMT's, ER doctors, and state trooper all witnessed his unconsciousness. His PCP told him it was suspended, but it is not recorded in his DMV record.
It’s not going to be convenient, but perhaps the solution is to remove the vehicle from Dad’s place, store it somewhere as accessible as possible for you, drive your car to pick it up, and then go around to collect Dad. So it’s ‘usable’ but not there as an option for Dad to get into. Make a fuss about how much trouble it is for you to avoid the potential accidents and liability, and how much easier it would be if he uses the ‘caregiver and transportation’ you have provided. Get someone to heavy you (even this site’s ‘advice’) about his and your liability if he injures someone else – or kills your mother.
Anyway, the DMV suspended her license, based on a medical condition she has which was reported. No names of doctor reporting her medical condition, and no specifics about her medical condition (dementia). I strongly suspect it was her psychiatrist that reported her. And it relieved me of the responsibility to tell her she shouldn't drive any longer, ever.
Of course, the suspension could be rescinded, but only on a doctor's advice that her medical condition was resolved and no longer a factor in her ability to drive.
Obviously dementia isn't a condition that will get better (enough to allow my mom to continue driving safely).
Hope this is helpful - get a doctor to anonymously report to DMV or its equivalent. Then expect a letter from DMV re: suspension!
There are so many reasons for losing consciousness. Did they find any reason for it in the hospital or doctors after the accident? Seizures, heart problems, blood pressure and blood sugar, and stroke all immediately come to mind. Clearly he shouldn't be driving. But there may also be underlying problems that need to be addressed whether he is driving or not.
I detailed very specific instances mom had been having + the MCD diagnosis + not seeking medical help = the state sent her a letter. The state would have reactivated her license had she passed an in-person test (she did not pass) and had three various doctors complete paperwork saying she was fit to drive (she tried to get her primary to sign off on the paperwork which he did not do).
Start with a letter to dads doctor, detailing all you know about dads health and why he should not be driving. Ask for the doc’s assistance.
Next, call the DMV and ask where you can send a letter requesting dads license be revoked. Write a letter to the DMV and state what you know about dad’s vision issues, his loss of consciousness behind the wheel, driving tickets, etc.. Request their assistance and state you do not believe your dad should be driving.
This worked for me, even though psychiatrist and neurologist in the ER did not put through paperwork to the state with Mom’s diagnosis of cognitive decline.
Good luck.
That is not exactly a short span of time to be unconscious. And then they did multiple tests with no results. So they ruled out the common causes?
In other words, they have absolutely no idea what happened. Which also means that they have absolutely no idea if it will ever happen again. This is incredibly serious.
My DH has very well controlled seizures, on three different medications. He has been well controlled for YEARS. We are in our 50s. A number of years ago he had a single vehicle accident. He had missed 3 doses of his medication - for unforeseen circumstances. He had one seizure due to the missed medications which caused the accident. His doctor immediately sent in the letter to the DMV medical review board to remove his driving privileges for 6 months - even though we knew the reason for the seizure was the missed meds, it was protocol and it was the right thing to do, to be sure that it was just from the missed meds. He had to go back to the DMV after those 6 months and request reinstatement, which he received. He had not had any seizures since then.
This is nothing to play with. Had the doctor not taken away his driving privileges- we would have had to do something because I wouldn't have felt comfortable - at least for a while- letting him drive until we KNEW he was back to a stable place.
I think your best option is to contact the DMV. Ask them what steps you need to take to get his DL revoked. They can give you the proper procedure. But the immediate need is to absolutely remove all opportunity for him to drive in any way possible. Make sure all keys are nowhere to be found. They all belong to you now. He has no access to any cars. I would even go so far as to keep track of what he is doing in case he tries to RENT a car. I know you can't disable the car because you use it. But make sure he cannot get behind the wheel of a car.
In not knowing what happened to him - and in knowing that he already has a history of accidents and tickets - this is not something that can be left to chance. Anything to do with loss of consciousness is either a sudden drop in blood pressure, something with his heart, a seizure (which is possible even if he has never had one before and could be related to other things), or maybe even drug or alcohol related - which I would assume would have come out in the tests. Is he on any new meds that he started before the accident? Anything medication or otherwise that he may be allergic to?
When you have eliminated the horses you start looking for zebras. Could this have been a one time thing? Sure. My DH's was. But we KNEW exactly what happened to him. But there is the distinct possibility that you won't find out what caused this. And you are going to need to make sure that even if the cause of the accident happens again - an accident itself can't happen again.
1. I reach out to the PCP, which I do not have HIPPA authorization, and though ethically may comply, most likely will not.
2.Contact the state tollway authority/officer on scene who signed the accident report and citations. Although I'm sure he has seen plenty of accidents since this particular one, this officer personally sought out my SD to verify he was alive, and give him the citations personally. I think he will remember. I left a message for the trooper yesterday, and waiting for a reply, and ask for a suspension.
The SOS stated that the 3 main medical reasons for suspension are diabetes, epilepsy, and sleep apnea. He has the latter, and has been in treatment for years. This would also explain why all of the other testing was normal, and most likely, he was never asked about it during his emergency care. This may be the zebra.
He has no allergies, or new meds.
I feel like there is hope in discovering the sleep apnea could be the solution to this issue.
I am trying to juggle this and my mother's dementia/noncompliance and frequent ER visits, and my own serious health conditions. I am the only one who shows up, and the caregiver usually gets thrown out when she gets there. I need to & do work part time, and yeah I know it's too much. I have often felt my mother will out live us all.
I appreciate your thoughtfulness and the time you have invested in my issue. Thank you.
Sometimes you just have to lay it out. If he had an accident as you described he needs to stop today, not a license issue, just NO. I've pulled many dead and mangled bodies out of cars for over 40 years with older people being behind the wheel that should not have been there.
I have tried to appeal to logistical, practical, and safety issues, but have not taken him driving myself. IMO he has not been a safe driver for years.
I think a drive might be the solution. Just him and I and a test. It seems like the perfect opportunity to tell him it's over.
Can you give me a few ideas, of how and where I should implement it please?
2. Get him evaluated by his doctor. Anonymously report him as an unsafe driver to the DMV.
3. This is going to be a very tough battle but tough love: take all car keys away from him NOW. In addition, remove the vehicle from an accessible area. Tell Dad the car is in the shop and just do not know when it will be available to use.
4. Discuss how dangerous it is to continue to drive and how much it will destroy this family financially and physically, cause severe injuries, perhaps lead to one or more deaths.
5. Finally, discuss alternate transportation plans, such as rideshare. He may be eligible for paratransit. With his sight conditions, does he use a white cane? There is also the guide dog as a useful option if able to use public transit.
If I were you, I’d go straight to the doctor. There’s a form they fill out and turn it into the DMV.
Good luck!
Addition to all the great info here. In your response to blue-eyed you mentioned not being able to contact the PCP because of HIPPA? It's not a violation of HIPPA for you to provide info to the physician. They may not respond since if you are not authorized on release of info. You can always give them info if you concerned about your LO. It may actually help the medical team to understand all the things that happen outside of the 15-20 minutes they see their patient. My mom was very convincing at the Dr's office. I began slipping the receptionist a note when we checked in and noticed the evaluations and line of questioning change once they had more information. Then I continued to update in this manner. The doctor continued to address my mom with his questions, knowing what the real answers were already. It allowed her to maintain some sense of autonomy. Granted, she was allowing me to go in to her appointments. My point is YOU can share info with the medical team. HIPPA protects your SD from them sharing with you if he hasn't approved.
This is a tough situation all the way around. This group always has wonderful suggestions and support. Best to you!
It sounds like your father has no business driving. Contact a doctor or the BMV who can give him a simulated driving test to prove to him that it is dangerous for him to be on the road. Then you'll need to figure out who is going to take on those tasks for him that he would normally do for himself with a car.
* Contact the DMV
* Avoid his ability to drive - some people are very willful in this regard.
- Disassemble parts of the car so he can't drive it (if he might).
- Plug up key hole so the key won't go in.
- Take the battery out of the 'key' if that kind of key.
- Change the key on his key ring so it doesn't work.
* As needed, notify the police dept that he is / might be driving and that you are in the process of getting his license revoked.
IMPORTANT _________________
(1) Give him a lot of room to vent as this is a huge loss for him. He will be angry and give you reasons why he can drive.
- Be compassionate - yet firm.
- Might 'not' be a time to say "xxx will drive you to xxx' as this reinforces his lack of independence although it will let him know he isn't stuck (in the house). The timing of this is important.
(2) Do not argue with him. Do reflective listening, i.e., "I understand you feel xxx"
(3) Watch Teepa Snow's webinar on this issue. It is very informative. If you can't find it on her website, call her office.
Gena / Touch Matters