My 87 year old mother lived at home with my soon to be 91 year old father until last March when she fell at home and broke her hip. She went to assisted living after the surgery and has been there ever since. Both of my parents are saying she is coming home as soon as she gets the Covid vaccinations.
She has never regained the ability to walk since the fall. She was also diagnosed with dementia while in assisted living. Before the fall when she lived at home she would never take her medicine as prescribed. She would "self medicate" and take whatever she thought she needed at the time. Needless to say at that time she was not well. Now since she has been in assisted living and they make sure she takes her medication at the right times, she has been much better. In my mind 24x7 care for her is absolutely necessary.
I have POA and have run the numbers - they cannot afford 24x7 at home care. They are both VERY stubborn. Has anyone been able to convince their parents that the best thing for them is to remain in assisted living to get the care they need? If so, how were you able to convince them? I am afraid I am going to lose this battle and she will come home regardless of what I say.
I have posted questions here before and received great responses. I want to thank everyone in advance for their time and consideration in responding to this post!
Have you sat with your father and told him you will not/cannot condone bringing her home, and that you will not enable him to do this, that you may in fact resign as their POA and leave them to manage on their own if he feels they can do that? That would be a dreadfully difficult conversation to have to force the hand here, but I think I would consider it.
I am so sorry. I think you may have to take over here. Their funds will assist you as POA to go to get guardianship (permanent,) but if your Dad doesn't have dementia and fights you in court, he will win, and you would have to pay costs.
Hope you get some other ideas that may work. This has to be very hard.
He is forgetful, but I do not think he has dementia. If he does, it is very mild. He is just very, VERY stubborn. Doubt that he would ever challenge guardianship in court, but if he did, you are right, he would win.
If he/they want to be really stubborn, make sure staff knows you are against it and see if they can lobby your dad to relent. Do NOTHING to help him move her home. Set some boundaries and say clearly what you will NOT be doing if she comes home.
Lousy situation to be in, no doubt.
Sit Dad down & ask him about it. Chat # 1: What he wants. What's his motivation?
Then run that though some common sense to see it it is possible. (I'm guessing not...).
Next, Chat # 2. This is what the REAL options are Dad.
Can he see the difference between the *wants* & the *needs*? What sort of reasoning does he have?
This will decide the direction. He will have a big cry on your shoulder & admit Mother will NEED to stay where she is OR he will stay stubbornly focused on what he & she WANT.
Then you warn him. "I don't agree so I won't be helping". Sticking to this is vital!
Add in a compromise. To keep
Mother's room open for 2 weeks - one month. He can do a trial & then reassess.
Often, some real life will break down the denial. 2 days & he'll drive her back to assisted living.. at least then he will KNOW he can't do it.
Keep us updated.
There's really no way to convince a stubborn elder of anything if they're set in their ways for so long. Your father might respond to numbers though. If he can be made to see that 24/7 homecare will be more expensive than AL because all of the other household bills will still have to be paid with it. He might not like the idea of someone also living in the house with them so moving to AL himself with mom might be a workable solution.
If they continue to be stubborn and refuse, then let them both know that you will not be responsible for it. Do not help them in any way to get your mom out of the AL. If you have to go so far as even refusing to pick her up, then that's what you have to do.
Since you know their financial numbers, sit down with your dad and tell him that $X is what they can afford per month, $Y is what they are currently spending having them living separately and $Z is what they would need to spend if she came home. Make sure $Z is way above $X.
Do they own a home? If so, get a local realtor to give you an estimate about what it might sell for as is. Show your dad how much that money would pay for if he moved into the ALF with your mother.
With stubborn parents, you must learn to be a broken record and redirect the conversation to discussing their needs. Wanting to bring your mother home is a nonstarter - you need to be direct with your father that they cannot afford bringing her home. And be clear that because you disagree with bringing her home that you will not enable any of it and they may well end up worse off if they don't listen to reason.
Sometimes you just have to do what has to be done as hard as it may be. Your parent / child roles are reversed now. If reasoning and diplomacy don’t work your the “decider” now.
Even if she came home, this is not a sustainable solution in the long run because her condition will surely get worse in time. I have found with my Mom, anything that cost more (or less) is the motivator. As another poster said, they are Depression era generation and saving money is a priority for them. So that's one card you can play.
In the meantime, are both vaccinations really being given in that assisted living facility? Find out, because I'm not sure vaccines are as readily available everywhere. This excuse may buy you time. The vaccinations are so new and we can't even be sure they will be useful for the new viral strains that are coming out - so much about their efficacy and availability is unknown.
Lastly, can you possibly talk to your parent's Primary doctor on this matter, and have him/her explain that it is not a good time or in her best interests health wise to move your mom back home? Having a health care provider explain to your Dad that Mom is safer where she is will most likely be received more readily than your opinion would. I wish you the best. Keep us posted!
What we are hearing confirms our thoughts - when we have the conversation with my dad, we are going to have to lay out all the facts regarding bringing her home - from what it will cost to what his responsibilities will be to what our responsibilities will be (we will continue to visit them and do their finances as always but nothing else).
We are also going to get a health care professional that they respect to talk to my dad and give him their independent opinion as to whether she is fit to come home. If my dad still insists, we will let it happen.
Fortunately we found out today we do have some time. First vaccination for my mom is next week. Second vaccination is 21 days after that. Then we have heard that there is a period of time that has to elapse before the vaccination is considered 96% effective. We are in the process of finding out more about that.
Again, we really sincerely appreciate the responses. We hope we can be as big of help to you sometime as you have been to us. We will post again later on this string and let folks know how things went.
Thank you!
Install Cameras thruout the home so you can watch them any time 24 7 with your computer or cell phone.
Start out by just hiring help 4 hrs in the morning and 4 hrs in the evening.
Even if you think where your mom is now is great. Think again.
Your mom should be allowed to spend the rest of her time at home where she is happiest.
I would suggest having him move in with her at the AL. Don't talk about it being permanent, just a solution for them to be together while she gets "better." Most likely there won't be any "better" health wise, but if you approach it right, make him see how nice it will be to be with her, to help her get better but not have to worry about tending to everything else a house requires (cleaning, laundry, meals, shopping, etc.) Generally the cost isn't doubled, as they are sharing a space. It will deplete funds for a bit while the house is still unsold, but the plan should include eventually selling the home.
If he is on the beginnings of the dementia road, he will need more care, perhaps sooner rather than later. Once he's in AL, he can stay or move to MC. It would be easier to transition him now.
Is your mother still getting OT or PT? Perhaps if he is living with her, he can encourage her to work with them, to build up strength. If not, he can wheel her to activities and meals, wheel her outside when the weather is nicer, etc. He could be with her and have help in a moment's notice if he needs it! In her case, is it truly dementia or aftereffects of anesthesia? I've read the effects can last for months and it can seem like dementia. Some return to normal, some get better but never back to pre-surgery level. If she shows some improvement, it's likely an aftereffect.
I wouldn't relinquish the POAs. If they are both going the dementia path, someone needs to be able to manage their health care and finances, sign documents, etc. If you don't have the POA and then need to get guardianship when they are beyond capability to assign POAs, it is time consuming and expensive! POA also doesn't mean you have pay for anything - their assets/income should pay for what they need OR apply for Medicaid. If you can eventually sell the house, they should have enough for quite a while. It took me almost 2 years to get mom's place cleared, cleaned and repaired before we could sell it. The expenses were not ideal (condo fees and RE taxes were the worst!), but there are ways to reduce all the costs of hanging on to it until the right time to sell it. Winterizing, keeping heat or AC as low as possible, reduced normal costs such as food, supplies and heating water would be reduced considerably, so the house won't cost quite as much. Do beware that unoccupied homes do need a special ins policy - shop around to find the best coverage/cost. We considered renting mom's condo, but after 2 years of dealing with it and everything else, I didn't want that on my plate too! If you could rent it, perhaps that could cover their AL costs (you'd have to clear it out/use storage for things.)
FWIW - POAs are only for the financial and health care duties. They don't give you the "power" to say where someone will live, like guardianship might, but if you can get the move done now, using all the positive reinforcement you can, THAT will be done already. As dementia progresses and they need to move to MC, fibbing can be your friend! Just tell them that the rooms need new carpets, painting, renovation, ANYthing that sounds plausible, so they have to move to another room.
In the interest of stalling for time, you can always "elaborate" on the need(s) to wait or "adjust" the waiting period... Yes, little fibs, but they aren't done to hurt anyone, just gives you a little more breathing room to do what needs to be done.
I did include it in my other post, but PLEASE, don't relinquish the POA. If/when either or both parents can no longer make their own decisions or manage their finances, they may be beyond the capability to assign POAs again - that means guardianship, which is time consuming and expensive. To my understanding, a lot of reporting required by the courts! Do yourself a FAVOR and hold on to the POAs.
POAs only mean you can manage finances and health care, make decisions for either, it doesn't mean you pay ANY of their bills with your money, or make you responsible for anything other than managing their finances and medical. It also allows you to sign documents FOR them.