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My husband and I stay with my mother-in-law. She is 80, has Parkinson's for years, dementia for a few years, and is a widow. She is mobile but is very forgetful. I have a toilet problem with her. She wears depends to bed. I suspected she wet her bed. She doesn't wear her underwear daily because she forgets to change and I am not allowed to say anything. Now, with another cat in the house, we keep the toilet lid down. I already use a puppy pad and wash cloth to keep wetness up and off stuff. This week, I cleaned up poop and urine since she forgets the seat being down. Today, she got surprised by the kitten jumping and I just changed the puppy pad. She peed all over the lid, floor, and puppy pad. I told her that maybe she may have to wear the depends during the day and not go to the bathroom anymore. She rejected this idea, of course. I told her that I just changed the pad and cleaned. She said she knew. This kind of change has to be my husband's recommendation. She won't listen to me. I do all the cleaning. He has no idea...

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If he has no idea then it is past time to tell him.. Why are you not allowed to say anything?
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Save the cleaning for him.
If you are not permitted to say anything then this has to come from him. If he is oblivious to what you are cleaning up let him understand.
She probably should be wearing a disposable incontinent product daily and at night. A clean one in the morning and a clean one at night an any time during the day when it is soiled. This is not only going to safe the furniture and her clothing but skin breakdown happens easily and can be difficult to manage.
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Mammajae Oct 2020
I tried to save it for him, being the only toilet in the house. He leaves it.
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Because it is his mother. She only listens to him. It is for him to deal with, talking wise. I will tell him about what has happened and all the cleaning I have done. I will tell him the exchange between myself and his mom. I could be wrong, but he won't agree to her wearing them all the time, unless she is bedridden.
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lealonnie1 Oct 2020
Then HE needs to 'agree' to cleaning up all the messes SHE creates in the bathroom. Or, to hiring someone to come into the house to take care of the things he refuses to accept and that you refuse to take care of any longer.
Easy peasy.
He either accepts reality or makes other arrangements for his mother. Her panties are disposed of and REPLACED with pull up Depends which now come in lovely patterns that look like underwear. For nighttime, get Medline Extrasorb liners on Amazon which are huge and SO absorbent, she can let go of a gallon of urine and it will be no problem.
https://www.amazon.com/Medline-Extrasorbs-Drypad-Underpads-Permeable/dp/B07GYZNDY8/ref=sr_1_5?crid=15IHSD0IDFO62&dchild=1&keywords=medline+extrasorbs+ap+30x36&qid=1602690794&sprefix=medline+extraso%2Caps%2C223&sr=8-5
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You need to be there when she goes to the bathroom. She is now considered incontinent if she has no idea she needs to go. You need to ask your husband to tell her its time to wear depends all the time. Pull ups are the closest u will get to panties. The sides will rip to get them off easier. To cut down on the cost, take her to the bathroom every couple of hours, after eating a meal. Just like training a child only this child is going backwards.
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Mammajae, it sounds as though your family is from another culture whose 'rules' are proving to be very controlling at the moment. Do you have friends from your culture? One way to deal with this would be to talk ‘in confidence’ to a woman you know and ask for her advice. There is a good chance that it will get back to your husband from her husband, and ‘shame’ might prompt him to do something more sensible than what is happening now.

Another option worth trying as well is to tell your husband how dangerous this is for his mother. Skin breakdown, falls (nothing like poop on the bathroom floor for causing skids), perhaps other posters can come up with other reasons why husband should do something better for his mother’s sake!
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Mammajae Oct 2020
I have fibromyalgia and depression. According to the bible, the man is the head of the home. His mom, his home. I try to do things his way.
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Why not leave the lid open? It would solve some of the problems...at least for now...I haven’t had a cat for years, but the toilet was never a problem when I had cats.
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JoAnn29 Oct 2020
I had a kitten who went to jump on the lid of the toilet but it was up. If I hadn't been home, he would have drowned.
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“....not allowed....”?
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cherokeegrrl54 Oct 2020
Yeah thats what i said too!!!! Wife is the one doing all the cleaning and caregiving, maybe she should take a week mini vacation and let him handle it all!!!!
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I would take pictures of her messes so he can see first hand what she does. You are doing the caring, he should make your life as easy as possible. Have him tell Mom she should be wearing pull ups. Once he does that, you just reinforce it.

In hindsight bringing a kitten into the mix was not a good idea. I have had cats and the last thing I would want to do with caring for anyone was to deal with training a kitten.
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Keep the lid up and buy one of those inexpensive self closing door hinges to keep the pets out of the bathroom.
Having dealt with urinary and fecal incontinence I would never encourage anyone to give up using the toilet prematurely. Never. Wearing Depends all the time isn't necessarily going to stop her from trying to use the toilet - they do pull up and down like regular underwear - and if she does have a bowel movement in them it isn't going to reduce the clean up, in fact it might actually be worse.
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Maybe you can be more forceful and say... "Today, we are going to start wearing these briefs (depends) during the day. They will keep you clean and dry." Dementia takes away a bit of reasoning and you may be waiting on agreement from her until you are blue in the face. Your husband can then add "It's a good idea, mom. Let's try it for a week." Then you just continue. You can also take away her regular cotton underwear so just incontinent briefs are available. Also, you may need to start walking to the bathroom with her to make sure all is going well in there. (lid up, wiping properly front to back, seeing if briefs are wet or dry, etc) Good luck~
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Stop doing the cleaning.
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chillinwithscb Oct 2020
I get it. Stop cleaning until the husband starts doing it. Or realizes the wife is right.

Makes sense ... until it gets nasty since the mother is dirty and the bathroom is dirty and house is smelly.

This plan is playing with fire. Have a backup plan!
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I have cats and some do like to play in the toilet bowl water. Is it possible to keep the bathroom door closed until the kitten is bigger? It’s not the solution to the larger problem but might be doable for a few months.
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Are you wanting her to wear the depends so she can use the bathroom in the depends instead of using the toilet? I wouldn't recommend that. Once the brain is retrained to say it's ok to go in your pants, it probably won't get reversed.

The cat needs to stay out of the bathroom - close the door and leave the toilet top up so she can go. Not sure if a new cat was your idea or someone else's, but that's just more work for you. If you only have one bathroom, put a potty chair by her bed and she can keep that door closed and use that - eliminating the cat problem. Much better to have toileting in the toilet - not in the pants.

There is nothing wrong with wearing a pull up or depends all day long to catch accidents. Keep a supply of clean pads/depends next to the toilet so she changes as needed. It makes no sense to walk around with no protection and just peeing on the floor. You should be able to repeat this conversation until she gets it. However if she only takes direction from hubby - then you need to be a little firmer with him to tell her. Let him know that you aren't going to continue to be the only one doing cleaning simply because he chooses not to talk to her. Let him step in a few puddles if you have to, but that is ridiculous and shows lack of respect for you.
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Mammajae Oct 2020
The depends doesn't stop accidents. I already have a cloth under the rim because she pees under the rim, down the front, and onto the floor. A taped puppy pad on the floor helps.
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With dementia, it’s not as if it matters who tells her what to do with her toileting issues. She’ll likely forget, resists or not be able to process it. At a certain point, she’ll need supervision and assistance with changing the depends and getting cleaned up, though it seems you are helping with that now. I guess my point is that even if your husband tells her what to do, she’ll likely forget it not be able to comply due to dementia. I’d keep jumping kittens and puppies out of way. Very risky.
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Mammajae Oct 2020
This is true. She doesn't remember. Following her into the bathroom each time might help.
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It is healthier for her to use the toilet as much as possible. I suggest trying to get her on a toileting schedule every 3 hours so she has less accidents. If this doesn't work, I suggest she has a doctor's appointment to pinpoint the problem with her incontinence - it could easily be a UTI that needs treatment or could be treated with medications.

It might be a better idea to close the bathroom door to keep kitty out than to keep the lid closed.
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robertsnursery Oct 2020
Yes, like Taarna said, avoid Depends during the day if you can. They just increase the likelihood of a UTI. They create heat and the bacteria multiplies. My mom has been hospitalized three times for wearing them and getting UTIs. These had no symptoms like burning or stinging, she had no idea she had one.
I've found her try and sneak to use them because she doesn't like to get up to go (inconvenient...she says) but I am pretty firm. UTI's can go to sepsis quickly. She can get a pill to decrease urinary urgency that might help a bit.
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Isn't it time for a nursing home is someone has this much dementia AND is incontinent? I suppose husband won't allow it? Actually, it would probably be a relief to him, too....
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Chellyfla Oct 2020
She is ambulatory. Lots of people are incontinent even with no memory impairment at all. Sending her to a nursing home seems a little extreme at this point. Teach her to wear pads in her underwear during the day and change them every time she goes to the bathroom to reduce the opportunity for UTI’s. Depends at night. A pill like Vesicare will help but is not always covered by insurance or has big copays. There are plenty of other good suggestions on this post she should try. Shipping the MIL off to a nursing home when she’s the one who appears to own the roof over their head doesn’t sound necessary at this point.

No son wants to discuss toileting issues with their mother or clean up urine and feces after her. Take control of the situation, establish some caring authority, and deal with it. In my experience, sons are not the best people to deal with the intimate health problems of their opposite sex parents. As for getting him to clean up the mess, forget it. This wife is already subservient to her husband and that pattern, if long-standing and/or “cultural,” will continue.
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Why do you need to keep the lid down on the toilet? If that is the change that is causing her a problem, then leave the lid up.

Cats often like to drink out of the toilet and on occasion will fall in, but having a cat in the house is no reason to keep the lid down. I have 3 adults cats and a kitten, all of them like to drink out of the toilet at times. It just means I somethings have wet paw prints on the seat. Far easier to wipe those down than a complete clean up because your MIL cannot remember to put up the lid.
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disgustedtoo Oct 2020
"...have wet paw prints on the seat. Far easier to wipe those down..."

Assuming you notice them first!!! Nothing like sitting down and THEN realizing the seat is wet!!! :-)
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You are killing yourself! Not just with your MIL but with your husband!

Your husband is not very empathetic to your needs. I understand that he wants his mom cared for. He should not expect you to do everything!

He can hire a caregiver to help out. He can also hire a housekeeper as well. Do you have any help?

Call Council on Aging in your area to see if she qualifies for free help. They are wonderful! I have used their service.

C on A will help with light housekeeping in her room, preparing light meals, bathing, toileting, help getting dressed and sitting with them so you can run errands.

When my friend’s husband asked her about his mom moving in with them she said, “Fine, you are retired so you can tend to your mom.” He does!

She doesn’t even cook for her mother in law. Well, she hates cooking. Her husband has always cooked.

Is your husband retired? If so, he can tend to her and things will change rapidly.

It’s not your mother in law’s fault. She has dementia.and Parkinson’s disease.

My mom has Parkinson’s disease and it’s a dreadful disease. Their mind wants to do one thing but the body cannot always follow. It’s a neurological disease.

As far as the cat goes, just shut the door. I watched my daughter’s dog occasionally and he would nap on the bathroom rug. Mom couldn’t maneuver around him so I started shutting the door. He found another place to nap and mom wasn’t bothered by him.
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Mammajae Oct 2020
I agree. I don't think my husband knows what I go through. I have fibromyalgia. Some days or times I hurt terrible. I have cleaned up the toilet sometimes twice a day because of her.

I do agree. Stopping her from using the bathroom is wrong. Following her into the bathroom is an idea.
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I am amazed at how many posters here care for their MILs more than the MILs’ own children do. It is another evidence that women are better caregivers than men.
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chillinwithscb Oct 2020
It's probably true that women more often care for the older generation -- even in laws. But, I cared for my father. My wife had little interest and I never expected her to. Then again, maybe she would have been better at it than me :)
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You could take her to the toilet several times and not to wait until she has an 'urge' (although I suspect you'd thought about that one). Can you change the cat's place for pooping? I have a sis that uses the sand in a litter box and cat loves it now. Choose your battle...the cat can be trained and your MIL goes and uses the toilet...the issue is leaving the lid open. Otherwise, stop cleaning for a day... And kindly make your husband do the work, he'll get the point quickly.
There are bed protectors (kaylees) which the users sleep over (not under the bedding), also protectors for covering chairs and sofas.
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Many elderly have accidents. Allow her to continue using the bathroom even if she wears Depends during the day. Since Depends are like “pull ups” they are designed to prolong independence and dignity. Taking away her ability to use the toilet altogether is dehumanizing. Not to mention, if you are upset cleaning up the misses, you will have a lot more mess changing adult diapers 24/7.

You need to get to the root of the problem. It sounds like she may be having trouble “making it there” in time. Or, perhaps she can’t remember to lift the lid, generally. Is she unaware of the mess she leaves afterwards? Is this #1, #2 or both?

This is something that should be discussed with her doctor. If it’s #1 only, there are medications that might help her control it better. Could she have a UTI (confusion and frequency?). Could there be a problem like a prolapsed uterus that is putting extra pressure on her bladder? This can be corrected surgically and is very helpful for some.

if this is #2, there could be a different medical problem. Is she due for a colonoscopy?

Maybe she needs more assistance getting to, or in, the bathroom.

if she doesn’t remember she has to go or realize she made a mess, there could be a more concerning cognitive issue (worsening dementia) that needs attention).

Nevertheless, you say that you are “staying” with her. Are you there for caretaking it is she letting you live there?

Isn’t she more important than “another cat” in the house? Can the new cat be confined? Her dignity should be a priority.

You want your husband to have this conversation, but that may be humiliating or uncomfortable for both of them. Talk to her, woman-to-woman. Tell her this is what women wear nowadays for better comfort. Show her the commercials (many times the women appear young). If you can’t do this, have her doctor talk to her.

Make sure that she feels in control, somewhat independent and free from humiliation. Set up a system to best help her keep her dignity. Love the pets, but put the people first. The pets can adapt more easily than people, anyway.
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Grandma1954 Oct 2020
There is no logical reason to put an 80 year old with current incontinence problems, memory loss through a colonoscopy. Just the "prep" for the test would be a disaster not to mention the lingering effects of "twilight" anesthesia.
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"He has no idea" -- why don't you tell him?
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chillinwithscb Oct 2020
You imply that husband doesn't understand since he's not been told. Could be true. Or maybe he's been told, but doesn't get it. I suspect the latter.
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Have him be responsible for cleaning her, that should get the conversation going quickly
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InFamilyService Oct 2020
Love this idea, was thinking the same thing!
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Keep the door to the bathroom closed so the cat can't get in there. Tell everyone to keep it closed. Make sure a clean bowl of water is always next to the cat's food.
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If she still goes to the bathroom during the day, she shouldn't have to wear Depends.
Actually wearing them 24 7 could lead to infections.

Juse keep the lid up or shut the bathroom door.

Your MIL is more important than your Cat
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He is in denial. And I get it. He doesn't want his mother to wear a diaper all day since it makes him feel bad for her and/or she doesn't want to (since it makes her feel bad). It's a difficult situation. But, you know what needs to be done. She needs to wear it 24/7.

My father was living in a facility that offered both independent and assisted living options. He was in independent and I was the primary care giver when he reached this point (needing to wear all the time). And, I let it slide. I covered the bed in plastic and washed sheets once a week. But, it was not enough since his apartment smelled of urine. That continued for months until the staff of the facility stepped in and asked to take over. I let them and they did what was needed. They kept him in absorbent underwear and they kept his clothes and bedding clean. No more smell. Dad was clean. Dad was being cared for.

I know my situation is different than yours since you are doing the cleaning. But, I wanted to share my experience to support you and what you know needs to happen. Like the staff at his facility, you see the problem and you know the solution.

How do you get your husband on board? I don't know, other than to say you need to be firm with him. Tell him that his mother is changing; that he may not be ready for it; may not like it. But it's happening. It's time for him to grow up and take responsibility for his mother. Role reversal is normal. It is now time for him to care for her. She will increasingly become more childlike and he must act like the adult and do the right thing.

Good luck.
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cherokeegrrl54 Oct 2020
Yep its time he got his mother placed in an appropriate setting for her, and to show respect to his wife!
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Open the toilet seat and train the cat. This is not a situation that requires her to wear depends, the cat is creating a situation that is easily fixed.
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cherokeegrrl54 Oct 2020
O now we r blaming the kitten for the bathroom problems??
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Take away all panties and replace with pull ups. Schedule her bathroom times to every 2 hours. If she has a white board, record bathroom times on it and tell her it is ,"doctor's orders." Do not put the seat down on the toilet. Accompany her to the bathroom and keep her briefs and a trash can next to the toilet. If she has a BM in the brief, I find it easiest to just move her to the shower for cleaning. I have a radio in the bathroom tuned to her favorite music that only gets turned on when we are in the bathroom. Consistent routine works really well!
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BurntCaregiver Oct 2020
It way easier to clean somebody in the shower then it it to try and do it with them standing up by the toilet.
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I haven’t read the responses below so others have probably said the same thing but from experience I can say that this is a really difficult subject for both your MIL and your husband. It’s really hard for anyone to come to grips with the need for Depends but having your son involved has to be particularly hard just as a son having to to deal with this for his mom is really uncomfortable. I don’t live close enough for daily or even weekly visits, it’s my brother who does that but this is a subject he asked me to start and then he slowly moved into. It was difficult for my mom to have me involved but she accepted it better and I did everything I could to keep it dignified and more mater of fact. I still order her Depends and have them delivered to the house, I am the one she talks to about her changing needs in that area and when she has a UTI or once a yeast infection I’m the one that has the hygiene discussion. These sensitive subjects are all in the timing and approach in my experience.

So first thing I would do is change the approach a bit, just because she is wearing disposable underwear all the time doesn’t mean she shouldn’t still be using the toilet when she needs to, the underwear is simply a back up to help eliminate the need for more clean up and laundry should accidents occur as well as a safety for her so if she just can’t get to the bathroom or doesn’t feel the urge in time she doesn’t have to go through the embarrassment of wetting herself and the bed or chair she’s sitting in. Urinary (and I would focus on that) incontinence is very common in woman, in particular women who have borne children, as they age. It’s just a fact and it’s something your husband might be able to understand. Take the focus off of all you have to go through cleaning up as the reason to change things and put it on what’s best for MIL, wether she says it outwardly or not every time she has an accident it must be awful for her. Some people deal with embarrassment by trying to hide things and acting embarrassed, others deal with it by ignoring or even blaming others in some way but internally it’s torture. Believe me the hiding and trying to pretend everything is ok isn’t better. Anyway if I were you I would encourage having her doctor start the conversation with her, it doesn’t have to be you or your husband and then maybe she and her doctor can figure out which one of you MIL is most comfortable with being the go to in the household on this. Don’t refer to the disposable underwear as diapers, they are underwear, find the type and style that she likes best and start slowly replacing all of her reusable underwear with the deposable she likes. Then perhaps discreetly put a fresh new pair out for her morning and night, maybe on her bed or just in the bathroom, somewhere that will trigger her memory to put a new pair on without you or hubby saying anything to remind her. We have one of those small metal trash cans with a lid that closes on its own in Moms bathroom rite nest to the toilet, I get the small lemon scented trash bags that fit inside from Walmart and she can just tie the bag up when it gets full which happens every couple days. This not only helps hold the smell down but gives her the independence to take care of this personal need on her own. Is there a way to keep the cats out of the bathroom she uses? Somehow make it off limits to them so the toilet seat can stay up and surprises while she is in there don’t happen? If litter is in there it might be better to move it elsewhere anyway with an elderly person around to keep hygiene easier and better, she is far more susceptible to UTI and anything you can do to help prevent that will only make your life easier.
Also, you not being “allowed” to participate in MIL care other than as maid in your own home is not sustainable so maybe finding a way through this will help DH let go of some of that control and trust that you can be a participating partner before you have to be forceful. GL!
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cherokeegrrl54 Oct 2020
All this is well and good, but there is a problem that runs deeper than the obvious incontinent problem. If the husband is “head of the house” then the women have NO say so in what happens or what needs to happen. The wife is there as a slave, and if she tries to stand up for herself, she would probably get the crap knocked out of her. This is just my take on all th OP has written....because i lived that crap for 21 years and trust me its usually the so-called “christian “ men that are the worst abusers and perverts. And they justify it thru their misunderstood interpretation of their bible. Such as, the man is king of his castle and all females will do what theyre told or suffer the consequences. This is a sore subject for me because of the horrid abuse of every kind you can think of. And my fil at the time was pastor of a huge church and covered it up. Hard to try to explain to church members why i had a black eye or bruise on my face when i was in front playing the piano every time the church doors were open. This is part of the exact reason i have been single since 1989 and will remain that way til i draw my last breath. I dont take crap from any one, especially a male!!! I wish the OP luck in dealing with the husband....
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I think most of us can feel your pain. It’s so tough trying to make everything seem “normal” for an affected LO when normal is ever changing! I might suggest you buy a prettier box of women’s pull up briefs, assuming she can manage getting pants on/off to put on a new brief. Wrap them and have your husband give them to her. He can suggest you go help her try them out. HE should tell her you’re working together to address needs as they arise. Remind her you each have a part to play. Her job is to cooperate and accept more help as it’s warranted. It’s non negotiable. (If she can’t or doesn’t have help you’ll have to use tabbed briefs which can be tricky to put on by oneself.) the prettier briefs are a tad more expensive, but once she accepts using them you can always switch to a cheaper brand that’s plain! This worked for us- hopefully it will work for you🤞
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cherokeegrrl54 Oct 2020
And paying for these new briefs should come from MILs finances, not the OP....
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