My mom won’t move out of her home. What are the logical next steps and should we include her in the decision making?

If she's competent to make her own decisions, then there isn't much you can do until a crisis forces her hand. She probably can't be evicted at this time, but that'll come to an end soon.

You and your brother can put your wallets away and tell her the Bank of You is closed. If she insists on being "self-sufficient," then she needs to be aware of what that actually means. The way things are now, you're keeping her from actually knowing how her situation is unsustainable.

I am 71 and I understand why she can no longer be in this house. My question would be, though, why if this is a "childhood home" she still has a mortgage? Did she take out a second Mortgage. You really don't have to answer that because it doesn't really matter in this instance.

Your Mom can no longer maintain the house. You and brother should have not had to use your money to enable her to remain there. What you need to do is tell her you no longer will support her as long as she lives in a house she can no longer afford and either can you. She needs to find a nice apartment she can afford. Or at least you each provide something to the rent. Breaking her knee is a sign.

I live in a 4 bedroom house with my DH. I have given things away and getting ready to do another clean out. I know we will need to downsize eventually. But I sit here and look around at all the things we have accumulated in 40 yrs of marriage. His book collection. My doll collection, etc. What will I get rid of, what will I keep. This maybe how ur Mom feels. It is overwhelming when you think of packing up and moving at 73. What I suggest is first finding a place for her to live. Then her taking only the things she needs to live there. At that point whats left goes. Sell it, give it away, throw it away. Disconnect the cable and phone. Set up a timer in the livingroom that comes on at dusk and goes off at bedtime. Keep heater at 55. Talk to the Mortgage Company. Maybe Mom can turn it over to them. Or sell and maybe make a little profit. I may just let the taxes go at this point. They will be paid off at time of sale.

If you cut off Moms money she will eventually have to see your right. She will lose the house anyway.

Agree with those who have wisely pointed out that you and your brother must stop enabling her situation by paying for anything that keeps her in the house. Her credit score doesn't matter if she still has a mortgage to pay and not enough income. Has she ever had a medical diagnosis of memory or cognitive impairment? Does she have a PoA assigned? Please remember that she is a fully grown adult who had the entirety of her life to deal with the inevitable realities. Her unwillingness to do so is NEVER your problem, financially or otherwise. Easier said than done, I realize.

You can't force her out of her house if she is mentally competent. You do not have to "include her" in your decision to stop paying to keep her in her home, but you should inform her that as of XX date you can no longer pay for anything that pertains to her home, mortgage, its upkeep, taxes, services, etc. If she howls you just tell her the truth: that it is financially unsustainable for you and your brother. No further explanation is required from you. Just keep repeating it.

If things get really worrisome and neither you nor your brother is her PoA, do not rescue her -- instead please call APS and report her as a vulnerable elder. May you receive great inner strength to resist propping up the delusion of her "independence", and peace in your heart no matter the outcome.

Costing you and your brother lots of money, how?

If you literally mean that you and your brother are paying your mother's bills... Am I walking into some kind of idiot-trap here..? The logical next step, surely, is...

Stop giving her money.

You don't mention dementia, or any other kind of incapacitating mental illness, so I assume your mother is of sound mind. And if that is so, then it is not she whom you should EXclude from the decision-making process but yourselves. The decisions are hers to make. You two step away.

When she falls flat on her face and the bank evicts her, that's when you come up with plans and include her in the choosing. And do NOT - DO NOT - make living with either of you two an option.

The reality here is when you stop paying her way, she probably will lose the house. Not so much to the Mortgage company but because of nonpayment of property taxes. I was told when I was ready to give up on Moms house, that my State won't allow selling of property for lack of paying taxes until after 2 years. Mortgage companies may not foreclose for longer than that. So you may want to check this out with your local tax collector and Moms Mortgage holder, what happens when Mom lets everything go. This will give you a timeline when she will be evicted or foreclosed on. Then maybe you can at least get her to get rid of stuff getting ready to downsize. If she is competent, then she should understand that you can't spend more than you have and the consequences when u don't pay ur Mortgage and/or taxes. As I said, I am 71 and DH is 74 and we understand this concept. If she doesn't then maybe there is some mental decline here. Maybe someone other than you can explain this to her she will more likely believe. So sorry ur dealing with this.

The home belongs to your Mom?
And your Mom is competent, and without any diagnosis of dementia?
Then the decision of what to do is completely her own.
Don't enable her by caregiving beyond the time she needs for healing of her knee.
Do not give your own money for her care. Who will provide the money to you and your brother when you each need care of your own? You should now be saving for that time. To give her money and care to stay in this home enables her to stay there. The only thing you can do to give your Mom a wake up call about the steps she must do for her own safety is to withdraw your care. As Beatty says "There will be no solutions as long as you are all the solutions."

Cmrooney, now is the time to start using what are called "therapeutic fibs".

Since your Mom had to stop doing lawn work due to her injury, who will need to do it for her? Will she be calling your you or your brother? If she calls, just tell her that you had hurt your back, no way could you mow. She would need to hire a lawn service. If she grumbles that she can't afford it, then ask her what will she do? Let her think this over. And stop the discussion at that point.

My folks were in their 90's and still living in their single family house. I use to run errands for them until it got to a point I just couldn't do as much, as I was a senior myself. Mulch was the big go around for me. Ok, Home Depot would put the mulch into my Jeep, but since I couldn't bring the cute employee back to my parents house to unload the mulch, and I could no longer lift the bags, my parents had to re-think this idea.

What happens is that our parents still think we are in our 20's or 30's, still filled with a lot of energy, and can leap off tall buildings in a single bound. I remember some of the "therapeutic fibs" I used, I showed up at their house using a cane because of a back injury. When I actually broke my arm, my therapist didn't want me to use the sling anymore, except when visiting my parents :)

I'm only a few years behind your mom and also still have a MTG (long story, bought this place, still had the other as the plan was to fix up what needing doing here and was laid off 5 months later, stuck between two houses!)

BUT, my plans include paying this off as soon as possible after the work gets done. A lot went onto back burner due to the job loss and having to manage two, no make that THREE properties (both my houses AND mom's condo) along with all my mother's finances and needs. Finding people to do the work, the way I want it done, has also been a gate. Mom passed in December, but I'm still dealing with her financials, taxes, etc.

Thankfully despite having a few acres there is very little "yard" to deal with. It's a long driveway, but I have my 18+ yo jeep with plow for now. If/when I can no longer "maintain" the place, it will either be hire people to help me or move. I won't ask my two kids to do anything or pay. I actually paid my son several years ago to paint what I couldn't reach with a small ladder - I did the rest. I paid to have some big trees cut down (nice maple and oak) and am giving the wood to my daughter who uses a wood stove to heat. No charge to her, but she has to get her butt over here to load it into the trailer I have. I can't do it.

This place, once inside, is all on one level, including the washer and dryer. The other house, where we all lived together, was 2 story with W&D in the basement, plus about 1 acre to keep mowed. No carpeting, that all went after I bought it, so no real vacuuming, just sweep!

If your mother doesn't have the means to pay for the place and its upkeep, she needs to be made aware that you two can't afford to pay for it and she needs to move, either apartment or AL. I would imagine you are both still working and need those jobs to pay your own expenses. Don't jeopardize your own future to protect her present. SHE has options. You may not, if you continue with the status quo.

Your mom obviously has sentimental attachments to her home.

Guess what? No matter how much she loves her home, she can’t afford it. She is living beyond her means.

Please stop paying her bills. You’re not helping her in the long run and worse, you are damaging your future.

Tell her before she tells you what she can’t afford in the future that there is no more money available to help her. That’s fair warning. Let her think about it long and hard. Otherwise, she will continue to feel as if she can depend on you for help.

Wishing you and your family all the best.

Change is hard. Her home is familiar to her. But hey, no-one takes the walls or doors when they move! They pack up their favorites photos, trinkets, cups & throw rugs. Focus on the positives, what her favorites things are. What will she choose - from the REAL options available to her?

How independent is she? Would a nice independent apartment suit or an assisted living one?

She may GAIN a new community, fun activities, less housework, certainly less yard work.

I’m sorry to say this, but you may be in for a long ride. My mother is now in LTC after insisting she was going to die in her home. Looking back she was in both physical and cognitive decline for at least three and probably more like five years. The house deteriorated because she couldn’t maintain it, yet she refused to pay someone to come and do work, insisting that she could do it. Bills somehow got paid, but she always seemed to be in a state of crisis. Yet she was still adamant about not leaving. We (her children) tried endless solutions-paying for cleaning always meant that it was done right, meals on wheels delivery guy was rude, or the meals were awful. She refused to let us help her or take her to doctors visits or even talk to her doctors. We all live more than an hour away and have full time jobs, but she somehow seemed to think that we “owed” it to her to take care of her. In short, she didn’t plan well and refused to acknowledge the situation and her own decline. This is likely to be a long slow decline and may well have some dementia aspect. All I can say is set your own boundaries and support her without enabling her. I hope it doesn’t reach the point where there is a crisis that forces her out, but that may be what it takes.

Yes you should include mom in decisions that include her, in all the decision making.

After all, it is all about her and wouldn't you want that courtesy?

If she can't afford to continue to live in the house on her own income you need to show her the numbers, not just tell her she can't afford it.

If she hurt herself mowing then you need to tell her sge needs to hire herself a yard person to mow and edge every other week and tell her how much it will cost and see if she can afford it.

You can't blame her for wanting to stay in her own home.

HAve you considered letting her get a couple older roommates to move in to help with bills?

Discuss everything.
Does she have a choice to live with one of her chraters.

Best thing to do is lay everything out letting her know and see how much money it cost and what you and your brother have been paying and that ya'll won't be continuing to do that and what her options are and see if she has funds ya'll don't know about.

If so then she can stay and pay, if not the only choices are to live with you or brother or split the time and live half the time with you and half the time with brother.

If that isn't an option then see if she knows a couple friends or advertise for a couple roommates to move in which would help pay for her to continue to live in her home.

If that can't or doesn't happen, take her to see a couple Senior places.

Hope a Senior Place is the last resort.

A person is always happier in their own home if they can stay in it.

Senior Homes are mostly pleasing to the eye to the ones checking it out and is a total different story once you move in.

Once in, you are then under their rules...

Get up when they say, take a bath/shower on the time schedule, even end up getting more meds if you're deemed a problem or trouble maker, just to make it easier on the Caregivers.
Also trying to sleep with a roommate that snores or walks or talks all night.

If you've ever been in a Hospital, you know what I mean, you get no rest unless your drugged.

All I'm trying to say is, she'll be happier, healthier and feel more love in her own home or yours.

People fall all tge time in Senior Homes too.

Prayers.






Can she sell the house for more than what is owed?
Have a Realtor come out and discuss in front of your mom how much they think it can be sold for.

This depends to large degree on how lucid and responsible your mom is.

You could run a simple test:

Stop paying the bills. When she gets overdue notices, tax reminders, and the lights go out, see how she responds.

If she panics, then it is time for a good conversation about reality.

If she is oblivious, then, no, you do not have to have her be a part of the decision.

You have arrived at a point where you and your brother have to take a strong stand. It is not easy. But living in this limbo is much worse. Many here can attest that after you make the "grown up decision," life is much easier.

Good luck!

If I were you I would call a family meeting with your mother included. Have a nice meal before .let the grandkids do the cleaning up and you and your s8blings go to a private room and have a tell all session letting your mother hear and join in discuss.
There may be the possibility of putting in outside doors for apartments. Your mother needs 3 rooms with bath. If this not possible she needs to understand. Things are different today than they were in her parents time. There are independent living for 400dollars. Call *a place for mom* they will help you find a place she can afford
You might want to have a mediator who can lead the meeting and help mom to understand and keep the heated arguments down to a minimum.

Hope this helps God bless.

Please have her evaluated by a doctor for mental competency and mental health issues. If she is deemed mentally incompetent, then actions can be taken. If you do not have Power of Attorney for medical and Power of Attorney for financial, you may not be allowed to make decisions for her. In that case, the court can appoint a legal guardian and this person will make decisions about her care. So these are steps to consider taking:

1 - Discuss drawing up powers of attorney, will, and advanced directives with a lawyer who specializes in family care. If mom is agreeable, then got those taken care of pronto.

2 - Write a message for her doctor about her living situation - finances, condition of home... and ask him/her to evaluate mom for mental competency. Also, ask about a consult for social services to help.

3 - Research other living arrangements for your mother: assisted living, living with family (who have agreed to take her in)...

4 - If your mother is deemed mentally competent by her doctor, STOP paying for things for your mother. Take her grocery shopping and make her pay with her money. The only help you should give is "reminders" to pay her bills and making sure she pays them from her resources. She needs to realize that she can not manage the house financially or with household chores. If she is deemed mentally incompetent, then help her move to a place she can afford and sell the house.

top paying for her to stay in her home.

Everyone wants to remain in their own home, it's completely normal and natural. Don't take away her decision making in such an important matter. Have an honest conversation with your mom, letting her know she cannot afford to live there on her own income, and what it is costing you and your brother to keep her there. Once she's actually seen the financial burden it is putting on both of you, she may finally realize that an alternative place must be found. At least plant the seed. Then shop around for adult living facilities that are appealing, and take her to see them. Once she sees places that look promising, and sees the financial savings, she may be way more open to the idea.
Another less gentle option is simply to tell her you and brother can continue to foot the bills for another year only, and that its time to start shopping around now for a new affordable place. Then follow through with your plan.

Some good insights here.
Going thru similar here.
one mom has dementia and it is well documented- thankfully some things were legally put in place before she declined.
Moving out of her home is not an option for many reasons, but so was the caregiver situation she demanded. Honestly, we had to let it fail before she would allow a change.
fortunately we have rotating family members who provide care and support.
my other mother is not demented and wants to stay in her home too. She probably has no more than 10 years life expectancy ( family history, overall health, etc)
there will be NO way to care for her in her home unless drastic changes to accommodate another person. There will be no family rotating care, so it will be me snd my spouse only. That’s going to be the tough one, but again, I’m prepared to try caring in her home and letting it fail.
it sounds harsh, but that’s what we will do.

For any of us to offer sound support, we need to know

(1) her medical condition and/or diagnosis (dementia, changes in brain functioning).
As some or one here as stated, NO elder wants to leave their home nor make changes. They fight [it is fear of the unknown] until the end. This is (usually, in my experience) a given. In some ways, the 'fight' is all they have left which they see as independence. Understand how she (may) feel(s) from her point of view (although understanding may not translate into a 'logical' conversation with her. It may help you in how you communicate with her to ease the stress(ors).

(2) What, if any, legal documents that give you/family power to make any decisions on her behalf.

What you can do is stop doing what you are capable of doing if she insists on making decisions that do not serve her interest. Stop paying for costs involved with the house if she insists on staying and you have no other recourse. You have to set boundaries and touch love is 'tough' - hard to do. If you do not, you will continue on in this pattern.

(3) Yes. Immediately get an attorney. If she is poor, she should qualify for social services or some legal organization that works with low income people.

First of all you need a complete, detailed medical evaluation. Second seek an eldercare attorney and get a Power of Attorney, etc. Third, you immediately stop paying the bills - you must explain to her what is happening and why so you don't just spring it on her. You secretly start looking for suitable places for her to be - is it in a tiny home, an apartment, a facility? Tell her she must have help and you can't take on the responsibility to the extent she needs it, etc. Possibly have a social worker or someone from the office on aging evaluate her and the overall situation. It is obvious this cannot continue. Set boundaries and provide a time limit. This has to be implemented now - then go from there. But stop with the money within a reasonable time - do NOT give in.

Of course she MUST be included in the decision making! Why don't you find in home care! You have no idea how bad some of these nursing homes are. If you love your mother then you can make it happen! There are programs to help elderly stay in their homes. They will provide funding for care givers (who can also be family) and for all her needs. We have a program called IRIS here that helps. But I am certain every state has some aide available. God Bless You and Help you and your family now!

Long ago , both my parents both told me verbally and wrote into their estate plan their wishes to remain in my (childhood) their home until death. I was able to carry this out with my father who at 93 , after a brief battle with post surgery complications for a hernia died at home with hospice. My mother is now 94 , has mild dementia , is incontinent and completely incapable of self care and has three round the clock caregivers who rotate. I can't even begin to convey here the stress this situation has caused me for the past decade since the deterioration of my parent's health began . I am an only child, with no family whatsoever apart from my now adult children , two of which live out of state. I do not want to burden then with any of my problems in this regard.
I am the sole trustee of a significant estate , something most people might be envious of but I can attest to it being a nightmare. I have battled with my mother's neighbors in what became a party house after decades of private ownership. I have battled with the caregivers , I have been driving back and forth on the 101 freeway in LA , dealing with one problem after another for YEARS now. I should add I was also a single mother and was dragged and dumped 35 miles away by my ex husband while my children were minors and have not had the means to move closer . Pre pandemic it has occasionally taken me up to two hours to get to her .Every single week there is a new problem I am called upon to attend to. Here is the icing on the cake., One of the caregivers used to be my mother's housecleaner. She has worked for my family for over 30 years, starting with her job as a nanny to the children who lived next door to me in The Hollywood Hills. I hired her after my mother broke her arm , to look after her at night , at my mother's insistence , claiming this was the only person she would want. I might add that the other caregiver did not get along with this person and complained to me about her often . I tried for years to talk to both of them , to see what might work for each to feel comfortable in their respective roles. To make a long story short, I had to replace the daytime caregiver who had to leave to help her own family during the pandemic . She brought a very competent woman as her replacement . Within 24 hours the new caregiver was complaining to me about her. In the past two years the long term caregiver had become increasingly emotionally abusive not only towards the people trying to work with her, but also towards my mother and myself. She literally became a tyrant and would even periodically start screaming at me to the point I was in tears. About two months ago the new caregiver told me she would leave if I did not replace the person in question . As I did not want to lose her, and am so dependent on her , I tried reasoning with the troublesome caregiver and she would have no part of it . She didn't even respond to my attempts to find a solution that would work for everybody . Well I fired her, politely , paid her for her time and within weeks received a bogus worker's comp claim from an attorney , stating she injured nearly every area of her body over a period of 25 years. If I had to describe here the hell I have endured trying to keep my mother in her home I'd need at least 100 more pages. I have always been a dutiful and responsible person and I can't bring myself to move her to a facility . I am spending absurds amounts of money and literally spitting blood daily . I can't leave for more that a week at a time maximum . My mother was very abusive towards me for the first 90 year of her life and now has done a 360 and thanks me profusely for my help. I am grateful for that , but I am losing my mind . I am tethered to her care. I don't know what to say to any of you asking about this, It's an individual decision of course. I know I couldn't do it , I also know to what degree I have had to sacrifice myself.

73 is not that old. Relegating her to a facility at this stage would likely hasten her demise. I know I sure as hell wouldn't want my children to make a decision like that about me.

If she is competent she should be included in any decisions that are needed to be made.
And if she is competent you need to explain to her that you and your brother are no longer going to contribute to the household in the way of cash. If work needs to be done she will have to pay for it to be done. (If you or brother can do the work, great but she pays for supplies)
If you have been paying bills stop, This is mom's responsibility.
If there is no money for the mortgage then the bank will eventually foreclose.
If there is no money for taxes, (if she is paying taxes rather than it being paid from an escrow account that the mortgage has) then the property will be sold for back taxes.
If either of the two above happens then part of the problem has been solved.
Tell her this is the "new wave of her future" and she can either agree to find something more affordable now and of her own choosing or wait until she gets an eviction notice. (that may be a while due to COVID and the restrictions on evictions.
But you and your brother have to be concerned about your own properties, your own housing situations and your own bills.

There are senior apartments, condo's and smaller housing in "over 55" communities. There are also Independent Living facilities and most also have AL as well so if mom needs more help it will be there when it is needed.

It's really hard to take any decision in this type of situation. I'm not sure about your income, If possible try to fulfil her wishes and take care seriously this matter
Or try to convince her by explaining your situation. I hope she understands you and also helps you overcome this situation. This will be better for you both.

I read some blog and watch some video on the web about caring for our care person, I recently find "All Home Care Matters" on YT. They explain this type of matter seriously and you can get help from those people, I think

They recently released a video about " Caring for the Caregiver "
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcn8dU9RUBo

And they explain this type of situation

I hope it's work for you.

Always include her. The final decision is hers. What may seem logical to the young may seem like death to someone older. When people reach an age when they can't see life in the future tense, it's terrifying to themm. They believe that all that they have left is the past. If you take that away they feel that they will nothing left. Memories may be all that they have to cause them to get out of bed in the morning. Memories make it alright to live another day. How much is it worth to the family to keep her around as long as possible. Give her what she wants for as long as you can. Or someone needs to take her home with them. They need familiar surroundings. It's all about what makes her happy now. Uprooting her from her sense of HOME can be disasterous but creating an environment were she is surrounded by the people who love her can make it possible to see a future, a new sense of HOME.

Does 'the bank owns the house' means they have repoed but not removed her yet? Or that she owes more on the house than it is worth? What if you got a real estate person to come and appraise it and tell her what it would sell for. With housing prices going up, maybe it would bring a little more than owed. Maybe that would be some incentive to take the money and go while market is better.

Have you ever made a realistic list of income (she has) versus monthly costs she has and talked about that with her. Be specific that you/brother have been making up the difference and how much it costs both of you. Unless you can easily afford this expense, tell her you can no longer afford it and the house would be repoed if you quit contributing to the bills.

It sound like she is of sound mind, so yes, she has to be included in the decision. She has a right to stay in that home until the bank puts her out on the street if that's what she chooses to do. If she no longer had the house payment hanging over her head, you need to figure out what she could afford on her own. Is there any housing available for that amt of money when you consider other expenses she would have each month in a smaller place.

If utilities for such a large house are the major expense putting her over budget, when you review bills with her (without your help) add a comment that if she keeps the house colder in the winter and hotter in the summer, she might be able to swing it on her own. Figure out what she would have to give up to continue living where she is without any more help from you.

She is just 73? Unless she has dementia and you have financial power of attorney, you don't have many options. As others mentioned, she is likely scared about her future.

73 is not that old any more - and many 73-year-olds STILL work full-time jobs.

Whether your mother is competent or incompetent - if a person cannot AFFORD to stay in their current residence, then difficult choices must be made.

If she "won't listen to reason," then she may be in denial - about her declining health and her financial ability to remain in that albatross of a house.

As others have said, your FIRST order of business is to stop bankrolling her lifestyle. Why have your not put your foot down sooner?

We too are experiencing this problem. The doctors claim that she is competent so we have no say. We are constantly getting her out of financial problems. If she continues, she surely will not have any funds left to put her in assisted living. I am interested in the responses you receive on your post.

As previously stated if she is competent, there is nothing you can do except to stop paying her bills. After not being able to meet her bills, she may be willing to be reasonable.

If you believe she is incompetent, you may have to take her to court and get guardianship/conservatorship of her. As nice as it would be to have her cooperation, it would be the decision of the guardian/conservator.

I'm sorry for her dilemma and your family's position. Good luck.