My mum originally sold her flat and went to live with my sister to support my sister. My mum is now 97 with Alzheimer’s and declining mobility. Due to me insisting with my sister, she now has caregivers in four times a day.
My mum and sister have a unique relationship in that they have never brought out the best in each other but insist on being with each other. So when they both arranged for my sister to be next of kin, executor and now POA, to be fair, we all let them get on with it. My other sister and I did explain to them that they could and should have more than one POA, executor, etc., but to no avail.
My sister shouts at my mum all the time, she hates caring and the house is extremely unclean, cluttered and my mum just wants to die. It is not ideal.
My sister has had issues mentally for a while caused by medical issues, but because our mum agreed to all this originally, we left them to it. We are all, as a family aware that she probably uses and needs my mum’s limited money to live on. My mum gets a good pension so should not be using what little savings is left, but we suspect the funds are dwindling and that our sister is spending it. I have been concerned that when this runs out that my sister might get herself into financial trouble. This is a recurring theme.
She has recently passed out due to low blood pressure maybe caused by stress. She has had 3 aneurysms in her head so she was lucky when she fell that she did not cause another. My sister’s son feels this situation cannot go on. He is aware of the situation fully and wants my mum in a home ASAP and feels that yes, she will protest because of the money side but that the benefits of having her home to herself without the stress of our mum there, her quality of life will improve. My sister does not want that. I live in France, my other sister has mental issues.
I am coming over from France and need to talk to my sister. I will begin by discussing joint POA and executor etc. so that the responsibility is shared. I also need social services aware of the situation. Both sisters are really now both vulnerable adults. I cannot allow my mum to be bullied any further.
I cannot help care as I live in France. I did have my mum for 2 weeks holiday to help, but our house is not suitable. My nephew will deal with his mum, he just needs me to help with my mum.
I have spoken briefly with my solicitor in the UK re organizing joint responsibility. I suspect that due to my sisters health, the state of her house etc., that even if my sister protests I will be able to get joint POA, executor etc.
However, it is the issue of putting my mum into nursing care. She does not have enough funds so it would need to be funded by the state. The alternative is leaving things how they are but it is causing them both stress.
Any advice would be greatly received. This is not an easy situation?
Your ‘brief’ conversation with a UK solicitor must have been about completely different ways to get either sole or ‘joint responsibility’ – probably a guardianship application, and probably not ‘joint’. Before you visit, it’s important to get some more legal advice, so that you don’t argue about options that will NOT be possible. Currently you are barking up the wrong tree!
If my sister dies what then? My mum needs to be protected here.
PS I am legally qualified as a solicitor in the UK (though I now live in Australia) and I DO know what I am talking about, even if I am not charging!
Your choices are what?
1. Take over. This will nost likely need a legal Guardianship through the courts. But they live UK? You live in France?
2. Keep on.. await the crises. Which will be SOON by the sounds of it. Then you swoop in & take over.
2. Keep out. Let natural consequences deal with them all.
See if your sisters have you listed in their phones in their contacts as an ICE (In Case of Emergency) or easily found in their contacts under Family or Sister etc.
Please fill in your profile for us. It will help us answer you.
You use the word "mum". Does that mean that your mum lives in the UK? I am personally unfamiliar with laws there.
However, I can tell you that in the USA no one can become POA and Executor unless appointed BY THE PRINCIPAL (in this case, your mum). Moreover, no principal suffering from dementia can make such changes. Thus it is too late.
I think that's a lucky thing in all truth. If there is one thing more difficult that managing POA than not being in the same area, then that thing is attempting management with a co-POA who is not cooperative in every way. That's my definition of the 10th circle of Hades.
You mother has no funds. It matters nothing whatsoever who is the executor of a will with non-existent assets.
As to management now, this was the choice of a mum and daughter who have always been together and always been in a bicker.
I think you should stay in France and leave it be. If you have serious concerns have APS or your equivalent come in to assess. They can perhaps get you temporary guardianship, but do know that would be the 11th circle in Hades because you cannot get out of it once you have it and it's impossible with a non cooperative mum and her daughter.
I recommend you leave this be and step away. Your mother is receiving care from her chosen daughter with whom she has a relationship that honestly isn't up to you. There is little to be done about this choice now that the water has all flooded under the bridge. We all die, and mum will eventually do that, luckily in her own home with the child she chose.
Apart from my sister not wanting my mum in a home, both my mum and 2 sisters are willing for me to step in. I suspect they want me to take over care but that will not be happening.
my nephew has made it clear he wants my mum in a home to alleviate the stress for my sister.
Both my mum and sister decided to live together. As per any family, these two characters together do not bring out the best in each other, yet they continue, like magnets, to be drawn to each other. The rest of us, stay clear most of the time.
When they decided to arrange the will, executers and then POA. I did explain that you need spares, can add more, my mums response was, I know you will help xxxxxxx. I always said no, I have no power unless you add me, I am a social worker and had my own care company, so I knew what I was talking about. Because of their strange relationship with each other, what did I know being the youngest. Pretty insulting but have left them to it.
However, my mum is still alive and the hope of her passing before my sister are beginning to be 50/50.
I am sure that my sister and mum will agree to anything at this time. Both are suffering and not happy. I am going to see what I can do and assess the situation. I did insist that the 4 calls a day be put in. When things reach a crisis, I normally insist that whatever needs to be done is done when required and it does get done.
My other sister has issues, both my sisters are now effectively vulnerable adults. My nephew has no authority over my mum. Naturally he is concerned about his mum.
The house is a mess, very dirty and very cluttered. The bathroom is not fit for purpose.
I suspect a nursing home for my mum is not appropriate now. She has the care she needs.
However, having my sister shout at her, all the time is not helping either, so a serious chat is required to ensure she does not go into a home.
I need to make the powers that be aware that my sister is a vulnerable adult, that their expectations for what my mum needs and how they express that to my sister needs to be changed or contact myself.
So I am going over to ensure I am next of kin and my contact details and my other sisters are where they should be and with whom. I will also look at the bathroom situation and try to declutter. I will be cleaning my mums living areas as I do normally when visiting.
There is also the other issue that my sister does not want my mum in a home because of the money situation. I assume, but do not know, that my sister still gets carers allowance. My mum gets a good pension that more than covers her care, rent to my sister and spending money, so what little savings she has, should be increasing with interest. However, I know my sister is spending it. My sister is seriously struggling. We are guessing this, but also know this from old. My nephew feels that his mum, my sister needs to understand that having less money and handing over control will improve her health ultimately. Seriously, when looking in from outside, they do appear to be in a contest of who goes first! It is not healthy!
I really do not want to be in this position and should never have been put in this position. However, everyone, including my mum and sister want and need help.
I understand from experience that what and who people choose to control their lives should be left alone. Totally agree, you made your bed, you lie in it. However, it has gone on too long. The least I can do is ensure my mums last few years on this planet are peaceful and stressless. I also need to help get my sister out of this viscous circle of mess. I do not need money but neither am I chucking my own money at the situation. I am not interfering, I am not doing anything untoward.
If they want me added as a POA and executer, which I suspect they now do, after all this time! Lucky me. How do I do that.
Thank you
Just because everyone in the family thinks it's a good idea, it doesn't make it legal to 'add in'. If you try amending these documents yourself, the chances are that you will create many many future problems for everyone. Do it right!
so this means I tell them that they made their bed so they must lie in it. Regardless of anything, I have no rights or wishes on the matter so whatever happens no one can contact me, involve me or approach me. So if my sister goes before my mum, then it is nothing to do with me? That is what I am hearing.
in that case, who then does make the decisions. There is no one else.
I think we have answered you in ways that you really do not wish to hear.
Nevertheless we have answered you.
You describe a mother who chose your sister and lives with her albeit in some likely unsanitary conditions. I doubt that APS would intervene to remove your mom, but if you think so you can go for that.
You tell us that there is no second on the POA.
That is done and over. It is legally impossible for your mother with her dementia to add anyone.
ALSO, you should be glad of that.
You ask what would happen if sister disappeared? Same thing that would happen to someone without children. The state would take over. And that would be preferred to your attempting to. As a social worker you will be aware that if you ever become POA or guardian on either of these two uncooperative people it would be a nightmare that would be unending; moreover you could not give up guardianship as a judge would not let you. And it would be a battle ever second of your life.
Many things in life cannot be fixed. I suspect, without a fairies magic want, your mom, her other daughter and their current living conditions are just that--something that cannot be fixed.
Now no one can stop your trying. If you wish to do so you as an adult certainly can make that choice and I would be the very first in line to wish you good luck and best wishes. You are an educated adult capable of her own decisions with the same access to legal and social work any of us have--in fact more and more knowledge.
So very best wishes and good luck to you. I am an ex RN and I would never attempt this. I bow to your overwhelming courage.
Yes, if sister goes before Mom there will be no POA. And Mom having Dementia cannot assign anyone. Family should have listened to you.
Executor of the Will can be changed at time of Probate. You just inform Probate the person is deceased and ask if you can become Administrator. You will do all the duties of an Executor and carry out Moms wishes.
Also, it should never be joint. To many conflicts arise with differing opinions.
First talk to your sister and suggest that your Mum has Social Care Assessment. Present this positively as it can provide additional care and support for your mother.
Ring Social Care in your Mother’s Local Authority- Council. They should assess your mother within 28 days, although this doesn’t always happen.
Make sure you get your sister on board. You don’t need to have POA to do this. Being a Next of Kin or just a close relative is helpful.
You need to get the planned date of the assessment and come over from France and be there. Otherwise you will be relying entirely on your sister giving the full tale to the Social Worker. Try not to fall out with your sister.
The assessment will hopefully say that your mother needs a certain amount of home care or residential care. They will then carry out a financial assessment and ascertain how much your mother will have to pay. It looks likely your Mother will need your help in filling out this paperwork if your sister cannot help. You don’t have to have POA to do this but your sister may need to obtain bank statements etc if you cannot find what you need in the home.
As in most countries you cannot add yourself as POA in the UK. Your Mother would have to do this. It could well be too late to do this. Continue to explain to your sister truthfully that any help from Social Care would be to her benefit.
You cannot add yourself as Executor. When your Mother passes you can suggest to your sister that as Executor she asks a solicitor to handle things. Find one who is recommended by some one you trust. Your sister may be grateful for this as being an executor can further impact her mental health. It is a significant task. You can support your sister by gathering the relevant documentation together.
This will cost money but it means it will be done properly.
You may need to visit the UK more often.
I hope things work out for all three of you.
Try reasoning with your sister and/or your mother. The mother would have to rescind the current POA and assign you instead, if that is agreeable to her.
You can't have multiple POA's. (can you imagine, if everyone did?!)
When there is disagreement among family members, there can only be one person charged with making the ultimate decisions, otherwise it could devolve into complete chaos! Imagine the doctor being approached by a group of arguing family members trying to decide on treatment for their loved one.
I don't know if there is such a thing as a joint executor.
You can ask your mother to assign those duties to you and explain why you feel you are more fit for the responsibility.
There should, however, be a secondary POA and executor, in case the person listed is unable to fulfill the responsibility.
You could, of course, get an attorney and file a petition to the court to try and prove the POA is remiss in her fiduciary duty, or in any other way is abusing or taking advantage of an elder. Not only will that be time consuming, costly, and ruffle a lot of feathers, but the burden of proof will be yours. Unless you have substantial evidence to make your case, it would be a waste of time.
Good luck to you. No, it is not an easy situation.